An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980. […]
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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Kishore Kumar is the most versatile of all singers. I am singing for all a Kishore Kumar & ; Mohd. Rafi Songs.
Hamari Duniya Mein Hain Teen Heere
Kishore, Mukesh ; Rafi.
Aheli Ji,
Rafi was Rafi because of his melodious voice. You totally got this one wrong my friend. As far as melody, versatility and quality is concerned, Rafi and Lata definitely belong to the same group. Yes, kishore had talent. Tons of it. I wouid put Kishore and Asha in one group.
And also,Sonu Nigam is a far better singer then Udit Narayan. At present there is nobody in playback singing who can match him. He has never shied away from experimenting with his vocal cords . He, like Rafi can sing anything. We are all entitled to our beliefs, but they are not always true. He is a worthy successor to carry on the legacy of the best plaback singer that we ever had.
Aheli jii…..
Who is more melodious? Kishore da or Rafi saaheb…
Pls. do not rust to answers but……….
Pls. do compare 50 songs of Rafi saab from the fifties, sixties
and the seventies…. and do the same exercise with Kishor da’s
numbers….
If u have ears that are partial to any one singer then call a
neutral music lover and judge the songs…..
Please inform me the results…
binu nair… binus2000@hotmail.com
aftr my comment i think every one should stop fighting
First what i wanna say is we should respect our elders…. We should say Kishore Da, Rafi sahab, “Udit Ji, Sonu Ji”
Rafi sahab is classically very trained and Kishore da is more melodioes. so in there gharana’s they are the BEST… We cannot compare between them who is better or who is not… and from our individual liking we can say that i like kishore kumar more or i like md. rafi more… from my point of view i like Kishore Kumar more than Md. Rafi, that doesnt mean that Kishore Da is better than Rafi sahab or Rafi sahab is better than Kishore da.
And… i am a very very very big fan of Udit Narayan, and i didnt hear that he said he falls in Rafi’s gharana… his type of singing is like Kishore Kumar and Sonu Nigam’s type of singing is like Md. Rafi. So, here also we cannot judge that who is better than who…. I like Udit Narayan better than Sonu Nigam that’s a fact…. But some songs of Sonu Nigam has made me “Deewana”… but all the song of Udit Narayan has made me “Deewana”…
Udit Narayan has a God gifted voice like Kishore Kumar…. And, Sonu Nigam has ‘reeyaased’ his voice and made it good… Both square’s (Kishore Da & Udit Ji + Rafi Sahab & Sonu Ji) are extra ordinary…
KishoreDa and Rafi Sahab were A+ at there times and Udit Ji and Sonu Ji are A+ now…. No one for eg. Shaan, Sanu, Abhijeet, K.K., Babul Shupriyo, Vinod Rathod, Kunal Ganjawala, Atif, etc etc, can never take there places how lot they try…
One more i want to say about Udit Narayan music directors should give him more chance than Shaan and lot because he is much much more better than them. Udit Ji and Sonu Ji should get more chance than all. Others should get a chance but not more than them… One example:- in Deewangi Deewangi song from Om Shanti Om Udit Ji sang one two to three lines(approx.) he should get more chance. And in the film when his portions were coming all the screaming’s of the girls were given to hide his voice. Why? and in the duet’s only we could here Shaan’s voice. Why? i want an answer from all of you…
YAAR YEH KYA HO RAHA HAI ?
Why debate who is good/better/bestest! Both/most of the singers of yore were class apart.
My BIGGEST problem is that the STUPIDEST SHOW on the whole wide world…..K for Kishore….by Sony (Who else, Sony is one TV channel who gives us 3rd rate programming)……
ALL the singers in this show are WORSE than bathroom singers…..NONE of them have knowledge of SUUR / TAAL….HOW could SONY choose these singers beats me….not difficult I guess…if you ask some stupid manager with clerical metality…..that he is “given importance” of choosing singers….without knowing M of Music…..such 3rd Rate singing!!! Even Fame Gurukul (ALSO by Sony) had better singers…..
And, the judges!!!
– I thouhgt Bappi Lahiri KNEW music….this guy says “Bahut Achcha”
to even the WORST of the worst singers.
– Amit Kumar….altough a CLASS singer…. he cannot understand SUR.
– Sudesh Bhosale….should stick to mimicry…he DOES NOT know singing.
I feel sad that a legend like Kishoreda’s name is being exploited by these idiots by allowing NON-SINGERS to sing in this show….and the JUDGES PRAISING these stupid singers.
Hi everybody,
I am sad by the way u people have dragged such immortal names into such a silly debate. Real fans of real music and good voice will never stoop to such levels. They themselves were greta fans of each other. So what is the issue. There was only one rafi and one kishore. there never will be another one.so enjoy their legacies they left behind.
HI GUYS, I JUST FOUND THIS WEB SITE A WHILE AGO AND IT SEEMS VERY INTERESTING AND FUNNY AND I ENJOYED A LOT AFTER READING MOST ARTICLES.
I DO LOVE BOTH KISHOREDA AND RAFI SAHABS BEAUTIFUL SONGS AND BOTH WERE UNIQUE.
HONESTLY, I PERSONALLY PREFER KISHOREDAS SINGING STYLE WHICH IS TOTALLY MIND BLOWING. LATAJI HAS MENTIONED IN HER INTERVIEW THAT KISHOREDA HAS RECORDED FEW MOVIE DUETS ALL BY HIMSELF. HE SANG MALE AND FEMALE PART BOTH SIMULTANEOUSLY. SHE SAID NO ONE HAS EVER DONE THAT. ABOUT HIS THROUGHTAL SINGING, I MEAN SOUDING (UDLE UDLE) IN ZINDAGI EK SAFAR HAI SUHANA SONG HAS SHOOK THE ENTIRE WORLD. HES SINGING WAS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM OTHER SINGERS THATS WHY HE IS COUNTED AS ONE AND ONLY.
THINK ABOUT IT THAT HE NEVER LEARNED MUSIC BUT HE USED HIS NATURAL TALENT NOT ONLY IN SINGING BUT IN DIRECTING, PRODUCING, ACTING, SO MANY WHICH CANNOT BE EXPRESSED IN WORDS. ( MY QUESTION IS WHAT ABOUT HE REALLY HAD TAKEN MUSIC LESSONS AND WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN HIS LEVEL OF EXCELLENCY?) NO ONE WOULD HAVE EVER COME CLOSE TO HIS KNOWLEDGE AND PERFORMANCE. WITHOUT MUSIC KNOWLEDGE HE SHOWED HIS ART ANDTALENT TO ENTIRE WORLD AND BECAME THE GREATEST. LATA JI SAID NO ONE WILL EVER BECOME ANOTHER KISHOREDA. HE IS THE KING OF MELODY OF ALL.
HOWEVER I DO RESPECT ALL SINGERS AND OF COURSE EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN WAY OF SINGING AND EVERY ONE IS UNIQUE. YES RAFI SAHABS SONGS ARE ALSO IN EVERYONES HEART AND HIS EVER GREEN SONGS MAKE ME ROCK.
Rafi saab is a perfect artist and a perfect human being….. no
parallels…..The world loves him and respects him.
Kishore Saab is a very great multifaceted artist of the rarest
kind..
Very early Rafi saab said good-bye to acting and concentrated
on his ‘godly’ voice..
Kishore da asked Rafi saab to sing in his own home films
and as a token took Rs.one for the song. See the great qualities
of these two great men..
More, Rafi saab playbacked for Kishore da for nine songs….
One more feather in the ‘hats’ of these great men….
Kishore da loved Rafi saab and we all love Kishore saab..
Jai Kishore, Jai Rafi……
Binu Nair.. The Rafi Foundation…. Mumbai….
actualy india has great singers , in my opinion they were the best in the world… iam afan of mohd rafi ..kishor kumar ..mukesh..lata..asha..udit narayan.. kumar sanu..nusrat ali khan.. ect,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but when you come for comparison i think rafi is the best….
iam a uae citizen but ilove hindi songs…..
IF 1000 Kishore Kumars died at a time inspite of this there will no gathering like Rafi Saab’s funeral
Comparing KK with Rafi in cricketing terms is like comparing Sachin to Rahul. Both are great players but its fun to watch Sachin and sometimes boring to watch Rahul
When you hear Rafi songs it looks very practiced, lots of training, not very natural and very technically perfect (like Rahul). Yes Rafi has sung many memorable songs, but many sound similar. except when he sang for Shammi, where his singing style changed and there was some humour and fun in his songs.
But when you hear KK songs its like watching Sachin. The power in his voice is just magic. All KK songs are worth listening million times and the vocal quality in all his songs is just like a genius singing. The high, mid and low range in KK’s songs are just pure talent. KK has improved many songs with his variations, yoodling. KK also has a unique voice as he has both nasal and base voice together which no other singer had. He also brings in a charm in all his songs and his modulations, breath control is of a sheer genius who has never been trained. Imagine if he was trained.
But we needed both these gems (Rafi and KK) who have left behind some of the best Indian songs which will last million years or forever
There have been many clones of Rafi and KK but no one can sing like them
In summary both the singers are great and we must respect their individual styles of singing and I would rather listen to their songs and not waste my time debating who is a better singer.
dhaniram,
i agree with u tht the male voice always sounds better than their female counterpart in parallel songs but i dont agree with sudip tht this is bcoz of hindi films being more ‘hero centric’ the main difference wch i feel is the ability of the male voice to give more expressions in a given song. for me there r only 2 gurus whn it comes to expressions one is Rafisaab the other being kk. no other singer comes close to them in expressions
coming back to the point no sooner u listen to a male voice u know wht the song is i mean emotional,sad.happy etc wch is not true with the female voice may be coz of its ‘fraility’. and forget abt the male stalwarts like rafisaab,kk,manna etc even small time singers sing it better(sometimes) than lata n all the best example is the song-‘tujhse naraaz nahi zindagi’ is sung by a singer(whose name i dont recall) n the other version of the song is sung by lata n we all know wch version is better just show cases the difference between the two voices..!!
Dhani Ram wrote:
“It is surprising that in male-female parallel songs it is always the male who outshines the female.”
-Largely true.. But mainly because Hindi films are very “Hero” centric. So the male version song tends to get popular. Take “O Sathi re” from Muqaddar Ka Sikandar.. Any male singing for Amitabh at his peak would have made the song popular.. Lets take cases where the female version was more popular:
-“Tere Mere beech me kaisa hua bandhan” (Ek Duje ke liye). Lata’s version was more popular than SPB.
-“Ram teri Ganga Maili” (Ram teri ..).. Again Lata outshone Suresh Wadhkar
-” Ek do teen” (Tezaab). Alka’s version was more popular than Amit’s.
-“Kuch na kaho” (1942 A Love story)-Kavita outshone Kumar Sanu.
Interesting too, that all these happened in the post-Rafi era.
PS: I prefer Lata’s version of “Mere Naina Saawan bhadon”. It has a haunting effect that Kishore’s version lacked. And let’s not talk of “Hamen tumse pyar kitna”.. Kishore sang a simpler version of the song which was not even comparable.
Hah @ Anil, you wish all those songs listed by Vikram were song by Kishoredam now if only he could.
Kishoreda had an amazing voice – Agreed. Good ability to stay in tune – Agreed. Sing at high pitch without showing an iota of strain? Render alaaps? Throw out one word at the highest pitch, and the very next one in almost a whisper without even exhibiting the transition? Modulate his voice so that someone unknowingly listening 5 songs of his would believe these were all 5 different singers? That’s where Rafi outshines Kishore. Kishore was an amazing talent, much better than most of what the Hindi music industry has seen. But definitely, not the best.
List me all the things about Kishoreda that Rafi didn’t posses. Don’t tell me bass (people have pointed before to Rafi songs with deep base) or emotions (if you think Rafi’s voice is not expressive of emotions, then I certainly don’t know what to say…)
Dhani Ram,
Many of the classical singers think that music is only THEIR world. Rafi was one of them amongst others. But it is kishore-da who proved it wrong! Music is just one form of expression of human feelings and NOBODY could do it better than Kishore-da.
Dhani ram i would suggest you to listen to all the songs of kishore-da and if you have listened to the majority of the kishore-da songs then you wouldn’t have to write such a long message.
Rafi is a very good singer but only SECOND to Kishore-da. Kishore-da is a BLESSED singer! God is great and that’s why he made Kishore-da.
Vikram,
Don’t think like a fool! The rafi-songs listed by you are ONLY good for listening for people LIKE YOU. So enjoy those songs and I will enjoy Kishore-Da songs here. I wish all those songs listed by you were sung by Kishore-Da!
I have been following the debate closely though I have entered it only recently.I am a diehard Rafi fan and believe that he is not only superior to all other singers but is light years ahead of them.A Hindi poet equated Tulsidas with the sun and Surdas with the moon but in comparison called all other poets mere glow worms.It is the same in the world of film singing–rafi is the sun while all others are glow worms.
In the entire debate,some points have not been made though some like Partha Chatterjee,Binu Nair,Vikram and P. haldar have presented their viewpoints very knowledgeably and cogently.Some areas of singing have been neglected.Take,for example,alaap.No other singer does that except Rafi.Let us start with a very early song:Ramayya vasta vayya.The greatest beauty of the song is Aaaaaaaaa with which Rafi starts the song.In the so called Kishore era,Asha sang a song:dayya re dayya and the loveliest part pf the song again is Raf’s Aaaaaa though Rafi doesn’t sing anything else in the song
Moreover,no other singer sings a few words before the main song begins.Before Tu Ganga ki mauj main Jamuna ka dhara,Rafi sings Akeli mat jaio Radhe Jamuna ke teer.One who can’t appreciate this great quality of Rafi actually has no ear for music.And Rafi repeats such things song after song.Look at this one:Asseer panjae aihde shabaab kar ke mujhe,kahaan gaya mera bachpan kharaab kar ke mujhe and after this the song begins.In two songs Mukesh(whom too I admire) also tries such a thing but fails in yeh mera diwanapan hai(though the song is heavenly) and Mujh ko yaaron muaf karna mai nashe main hoon(again the song itself is supernal).
Only Rafi could create atmosphere with his singing.Do you remember his Parvar digaare alam tera hi hai sahaara.Rafi creates middle eastern flavour in the song with great skill.As also in his qawali Aankhon main tumhare jalwe hain hothon pe tumhare afsaane.Look at the superhuman control over the voice in a song like Jaag dile diwana rut aayee vassal yaar ki,a song of matchlless beauty and way beyond any other singer’s capacity.Recall the beauty of the bass in Mujhe le chalo aaj us gali
main jahaan pehle pehle yeh dil larkhraya and Zulf lahrai teri aur meri taqdeer bani(sung way back in the movie Yeh raaste hain piar ke).
Lata is considered to be great which she undoubtedly is but in comparison with Rafi she too falters.Let us look at some duets sung by them.One of the finest is:Tum hi tum ho mere jeevan main phool hi phool hain jaise chaman main.Rafi surpasses her in the duet by far.Her voice is sweet but flat in the song whrereas Rafi’s modulations are exquisite.The vibrations that he creates while articulating the words karaar,bahaar and dhadkanon make the song an out of the world experience.Rafi can infuse emotion in a song that no other singer can do.Let me cite some other duets.Jeet hi lenge baazi hum tum khel adhura chhoote naa piar ka bandhan janam ka bandhan toote naa,Tere bina soone nain hamaare,Laagi chhoote naa ab to sanam chahe jaaye jiya teri kasam, Teri dunia se door chale hoke majboor hamen yaad rakhna etc.His lighthearted songs sung with Asha/Shamshad in the fifties have no equals:Reshmi rumaal kurta jaali ka roop saha na jaye nakhre waali kaa;Le ke pehla pehla piar bhar ke aankhon me khumar jaadu nagri se aaya hai koi jaadugar;ik pardesi mera dil le gaya moti moti akhion me gham de gaya;uden jab jab zulfen teri kawarion ke dil machlen.
Rafi happened to sing some duets with specialists in their areas and outdid them.He sang qawwalis with professional qawwals and beat them.The reason for Manna De’s great admiration for Rafi is his understanding of Rafi’s prowess in hard classical singing.Only Rafi has sung one hard classical duet with a highly rated professional classical singer(whose name I am unable to recall).The duet is:baat chalat nai chunri rang daari aiso hai natkhat banwari.Rafi outclasses the classical singer in his own art.It is just for this reason that two of the greatest Pakistani masters Mehdi Hassan and Ghulaam Ali placed on record their great admiration for Rafi.When Mehdi Hassan had meteoric rise in the firmament of ghazal singing in the sixties,he came to India and went especially to meet Rafi.In an interview on TV when an Indian interviewer praised Ghulam Ali he said,”You have had a great singer in Rafi.” Remember that both Rafi and Kishore were dead by then.These very great masters of music as many more pay tribute only to Rafi and don’t even mention Kishore.They regard Kishore just as a passable singer who wasn’t steeped in any musical tradition.Rafi was steeped in the great musical traditions of Punjab and some of his memorable songs are in Punjabi.
I mention Mahendra Kapoor repeatedly in my posts because the film industry did injustice to him while unduly promoting Kishore and neglecting kapoor and Kapoor once lamented this fact.Mahendra had in his voice all that Kishore had and much more.In some posts masculinity in Kishore’s voice has been mentioned.God knows what it means in musical terms.What about masculinity in Mahendra’s voice.Have you heard his debut song:Chand chhupa aur tare doobe raat gazab ki aayee,hussan chala hai ishq se milne zulm ki badli chhayee sung for the film Sohni Mahiwaal.Tell of any song sung by Kishore at the pitch at which Mahendra sings it so masterfully?
And look at this one by Mahendra:Mera piar woh hai ki mar kar bhi tum ko judaa apni baahon se hone na dega.Some masculinity there?Kapoor and Kishore paired with Mukesh in a chaalu type of song:Dosti hai kya bolo dosti hai kya.While Mukesh sings it in his usual avuncular style,the competition is between Kapoor and Kishore and Kapoor outsmarts Kishore.
It is surprising that in male-female parallel songs it is always the male who outshines the female.I regard Lata to be a very great singer yet in the following songs she has played only a second fiddle to the superior male rendering.Look at these:Jaayen to jaayen kahaan,samjhe ga kaun yahaan dard bhare dil ki zubaan;Ai mere dil kahin aur chal.Talat far better than Lata.Mujhko is raat ki tanhai me awaaz na do,awaaz na do;Aa laut ke aaja mere meet tujhe mere geet bulaate hain.Mukesh pips Lata.Mere naina saawan bhaadon phir bhi mera man pyasa.Kishore sings it superbly while Lata is so so.Some connoisseurs say that Parveen Sultana does it better than Kishore in Mujhe tumse piar kitnaa yeh hum nahin jaante magar jee nahin sakte tumhare bina but I am not sure.Will someone like Vikram or Haldar throw some light on the limitations of female voice?
Kishore has sung some sweet songs.My favourites are very old ones like maana janaab ne pukaara naheen;Chhotti si yeh dunia pehchaane raaste hain;aanchal main kya ji,yeh hawaa yeh nadi ka kinaara(the last two duets with Asha which I can hear endlessly).Kishore could occasionally be quite entertaining but that was all.Great he was not.For greatness we have to salute only Rafi like whom the Hindi film industry will never see aagain.
Do the devotees of Kishore know that their idol had the ambition to pay a tribute to KL Sahgal by singing his songs.He could not fulfil his desire due to his untimely death.But it makes it clear what he himself regarded as great music.Are there any takers of Sahgal among Kishore’s fans.If so on what musical grounds?
Dhani Ram: I would prefer Kishore Kumar over Jagjit Singh for ANY kind of song – even a ghazal. Kishore’s voice was incomparably superior to Jagjit Singh’s for any comparison. KK >>> Jagjit Singh. Had Rafi Sahab been around – Jagjit Singh would have been jobless.
Anil,
Do you know what a pigeon does when it encounters a predator? It fools itself by closing its eyes, thinking – it is invisible. You are also living in this state of mind. It’s not hard to ignore reality, but it comes back to haunt us when we are wide awake. I don’t at all agree with your absurd contention that in the 70’s Rafi was jobless. Infact, during this period he gave some of his and that era’s most popular hits. The variety he offered in the 70’s was just amazing and out of this world.
Can anyone ever forget ‘Chura Liya Hai Tumne’, ‘Chaand Mera Dil’, Maine Puchha Chaand Se’? Why did RD Burman use Rafi for some of his best scores? It’s no secret that he preferred Kishore Kumar. But, at the same time he knew K K’s limitations. Whereas he was of the opinion that Rafi had none, whatsoever. Did you know that Rafi won a National award for ‘kya Hua Tera Vaada’, a song composed by the junior Burman in the 70’s? He had also won the same award on one ealier occassion for the song ‘Babul Ki Duaen Leti Ja. By the way did Kishore ever win a national award? At the same time I also think that awards should not really be the parameter to measure talent. I had to mention it because somebody had mentioned that Kishore won seven Filmfare best male singer awards as compared to Rafi’s, six. There was no such award until 1959. Initially, there was no male or female category for this award. I am sure if they had this award in the 50’s, Rafi would have won several more. Kishore won his first Filmfare awrd in 1969. This does not mean that for the twenty odd years prior to this one he was a bad singer. I think he was a better singer in the 50’s and the 60’s then what he was in the 70’s and the 80’s. He won four of the Filfare awards after Rafi’s death.
Why was the song ‘Nafrat Ki Duniya Ko Chhod Kar’ had to be given to Rafi? You probably know that Kishore could not do full justice to the song, even thogh it was picturised on rajesh Khanna. Laxmikant-Pyarelal duo won a Filmfare award in the decade you mentioned, for the movie SARGAM. All the male songs were rendered by Rafi. Madan Mohan gave the most popular score of his career for the movie LAILA MAJANU in 1975. Again it was Rafi who provided the vocals. For your information- Rafi was part of atleast 270 films from 1970 to 1980. If you equate this with Rafi being jobless, then my dear friend you are horribly out of touch with reality. He gave some of the best musical hits of the 70’s. Here are some of them.
Tum Jo Mil Gaye Ho
Badi Door Se Aaye hain
Teri Galiyon Main Na Rakhenge Kadam
Kitna Pyara Vaada hai in Matwali
Ye Jo Chilman Hai
Mera Man Tera Pyaasa
Jab Bhi Ye Dil Udaas Hota Hai
Teri Bindiya Re
Chura Liya Hai Tumne Jo Dil Ko
Unke Khyaal Aaye to Aate Chale Gaye
Aadami Musafir Hai
Dard-e-Dil, Dard-e-Jigar
Chaand Mera Dil
Nafrat Ki Duniya Ko Chhod Kar
parda Hai Parda
Chalo Re Doli Uthao Kahaar
Mere Dost Kissa Ye Kya Ho Gaya
Maine Poochha Chaand Se
Aaj Mausam Bada Be-Imaan Hai bada
Na Tu Zameen Ke Liye
Dil Ne Pyar Kiya Hai Ik Bewafa Se
Tu Is tarah Se Meri Zindagi Mein Shamil Hai
Woh Woh Na Rahe Jin Ke Liye Hum The Bekraar
The list goes on. If you look at the quality and the variety of songs, a golden collection like this could easily be described as the best for any singer. But not for Rafi. He gave his best in the 50’s and the 60’s. What an amazing singer, right! please see things in right perspective. Enjoy the works of all the them. We should all be grateful for what they have given us. Please don’t harbour any ill-will for those who left us long ago. Rafi was and will remain the best for eternity.
Vicky,
You are right. I did not mean to demean KK. I used the word Flat in context to the very few variations in his singing style. He had a great voice. Again Rafi’s was technically perfect and much more melodious. Kishore did not have even 1/10th of the throw and retraction that Rafi had. No doubt kishore has lent his voice to some absolute gems that are matchless.
Partha,
You have done a great dis-service to all the KK fans and music lovers by calling Manna Dey a loser. We all have our likes and dislikes, but that doesn’t give us an authority to discredit legendary singers.
Dear All.
U all are comaparing Rafi Saab with Kishore da……….Rafi fans says Rafi is great……….Kishore fans says Kishore is great.
Lata is best female singer & Rafi is best male singer of MILLIENIUN. That award gave by three institutions.
But, Rafi Saab No. 1 among all male-female singers….just compare few songs sung by Rafi & Late separatle….& Rafi sung best
1. Tum mujhe yun bhula na paoge
2. O mere shahekhuban
3. Ahesan tera hoga
4. Teri ankhon ke siva
5. Gar tum bhula na doge
6. Aji humse bachkar
7.Jindagi bar nahi bhiilegi
8. Aaj kal mein dhal gaya.
Even Lata told to Amin Sayani in year 2005 on Radio…She was unable to sing Tum mughe yun bhula paoge, compose by Jaikishan….then first this song recorded in voice of Rafi Saab & then lata…
same happend with “O mere shahekhuba o meri jane jana…”
I have this recording in original.
So…….Who is best…….only RAFI SAAB
Vikram sirji,
There are so many people who keep singing Rafi songs. And sirji most of the saregama singers are of no use just like most of the Rafi fans. Rafi was a great singer but still he was jobless in the 70’s because of fans like you! Please don’t bring Latji here. Lataji is simply great but Rafi is not.
Kishore da wiped out Rafi and History cannot be changed!
Binu Sirji:
I always love GOOD music. What happened at trichur doesn’t PROVE anything nor it doesn’t matter anybody! Just remove the songs of kishore da from your list and then see what it feels like. Kishore filled the void that indian music industry had for so many years even when rafi or others were there.
I like some of the Rafi songs! But unfortunate majority of his songs doesn’t interest any of the Kishoreda fans.
Vicky made a very good point.. I love Kishore of the 50s and 60s-Dilli Ka Thug, Door Ka Rahi, Door gagan Ki, Teen Deviyan… But I do not like KK of the so-called Kishore Kumar era..In the late 70s and 80s, his voice became heavy and flat, full of heroics and less of melody.. Any KK fan : Pls compare the songs of Door Ka rahi with that of Sagar or Lawaaris, you will understand what I mean..
Partha: I am a Bengali born in the 70s..The recent Sa Re Ga Ma pa winner Aneek Dhar is a bengali born in the 80s. What binds us two is love and respect for Rafi saab.. Rafi is for all ages. What I must argue though is people as their sensibilities get more mature tend to love Rafi more..The yound generation that you talk of will love Rafi more once they come out the frivolous world of discotheques and plunge into deep and profound domains…
And you mentioned recent songs..recent songs are trying to revive the variation of the 60s that Kishore had spoilt..Take the songs of Gangster-it has Qawaalis, Sufi, soft romantic numbers. Do you think “Ya Ali” would have been sung by Kishore?? Or “Kaisi hai yeh rut” from Dil Chahta Hai?? Or all songs of “Hum dil de chuke Sanam” or “Veer Zaara”? All these songs belong to the Rafi genre… Kishore’s legacy is only alive through trash such as “Dhoom machale” type of numbers..
Dear All.
U all are comaparing Rafi Saab with Kishore da……….Rafi fans says Rafi is great……….Kishore fans says Kishore is great.
Lata is best female singer & Rafi is best male singer of MILLIENIUN. That award gave by three institutions.
But, Rafi Saab No. 1 among all male-female singers….just compare few songs sung by Rafi & Late separatle….& Rafi sung best
1. Tum mujhe yun bhula na paoge
2. O mere shahekhuban
3. Ahesan tera hoga
4. Teri ankhon ke siva
5. Gar tum bhula na doge
6. Aji humse bachkar
7.Jindagi bar nahi bhiilegi
8. Aaj kal mein dhal gaya.
Even Lata told to Amin Sayani in year 2005 on Radio…She was unable to sing Tum mughe yun bhula paoge, compose by Jaikishan….then first this song recorded in voice of Rafi Saab & then lata…
same happend with “O mere shahekhuba o meri jane jana…”
I have this recording in original.
So…….Who is best…….only RAFI SAAB
Yes,chalo ik bar phir se ajnabi ban jayen was sung by Mahendra Kapur.I didn’t say it was sung by Rafi.My point was that singing of the highest order was perhaps beyond the capabilities of Kishore Kumar.Films and film music are forms of popular art meant primarily for undiscerning masses.Rarely does a movie rise above the level of the illiterate masses or semi-literate people.They lap up what the cognoscenti call kitsch.Even Rafi for whom I have the highest regard as a singer sang a great deal of rubbish to meet the demands of film makers.The purpose of most of the movies is cheap and ad hoc entertainment.Therefore just as we graduate from nursery classes onwards,there is progression in music also.From Kishore and Rafi’s chahe mujhe koi junglee kahe stuff we move on to music of higher domain where we find some of Rafi, much of Talat and Mukesh,even Mahendra Kapur admirable.Unfortunately,just as some people don’t make any progress in education,in music also people are unable to shake off there juvenile tastes.Otherwise one would move from film music on to folk music,ghazals,semi-classical and classical and will get a deeper understanding of the art of music.When Pakistani ghazal maestro Mehndi Hassan burst upon the scene in late sixties,Lata Mangeshkar herself said,”Unke gale se Bhagwan bolta hai.” She frankly admitted that much(and much indeed) of what she had sung for films was trash.Only a couple of days back I heard Sarakti jaye hai rukh se nakaab aahista aahista in Kishore’s voice and was rudely shocked.Kishore shouldn’t have even attempted to sing this ghazal.How mellifluously has Jagjit Singh rendered it!
Much is made of mere sapnon ki rani kab aayegi tu.Can there be a cruder expression of tender feelings of love?This song arouses images of road side Romeos making girls’ lives miserable.Even in the movie it is sung by a brainless eve teaser.
I mentioned Mahendra Kapur deliberately because,despite his meagre output,he sang songs of very high quality in a voice that had stupendous range.Someone in one of the posts said that Kishore’s voice is sexy while Rafi’s is not.Well,it is to each according to his tastes.However,talking of sexy songs,there is one by Mahendra Kapur Ai jaane chaman tera gora badan jaise khilta hua ghulab.Is there anything so sweet in Kishore’s repertoire?Talat’s last song was yeh hawa yeh raat yeh chandni teri ik adaa pe nissar hai after which he had to quit film
singing,not because he couldn’t sing but because great music was swept out of Hindi cinema by the storm that blew with Kishore.
Finally, one’s taste in music as in other things, depends upon what kind of person one is.If you are a lover of a woman you will sing with Rafi chaudvin ka chand ho or baharo phool barsao but if you are a marauding woman basher croon mere sapnon ki rani or roop tera mastana.The choice is yours.
that is why when people talk about singers of the past, with male singers – it is always between rafi & kishore with mukesh sporadically. of course – popularity doesn’t indicate greatness but it is something to consider.
as for umrao jaan – alka yagnik is a GREAT singer. if she had high quality music directors of 60s for her album – she would do SUPER. i admire her the most after lata mangeshkar (who is incomparable) of the female singers.
i do feel bad about manna dey. partha is sort of right. to be cruelly blunt… kk did overshadow him, at least in the 70s. manna dey for all his singing talents – did not have the MAGIC or personality of rafi & kishore. rafi & kishore were great singers AND had the X factor. kishore and manna are interesting contrasts. one is extreme in skill level whereas the other is extreme in the X factor.
mohd rafi is a completely different case however…he is the mount everest of singing – no one can overshadow him!
dhaniram ji
the song chalo ek bar phir se is sung by mahendra kaporr n not rafisaab
vikram,
i dont agree with the last few lines of ur last post. i dont thnk kk was a flat singer he had a good throw in his voice n a good voice but at the same time i agree tht the variations in his voice n style were less till the end. from the late 70s kk made his voice very heavy n cud never get his sonorous voice back. in the 80s he was singing some of worst songs not only of his career but also of hfm.the 80s wch cud be termed as the worst musical year in the hfm history was dominated by kk with poor rafi clones like shabbir kumar,shailendra singh ,anwar n mohd aziz. this wud always stay a mystery tht how the death of rafisaab resulted into a complete decay of musical standards in the space of 3 years.
partha,
i have read a few of ur comments and but the best one was manna being blown away by kk. wow thts the first one for me….. okie lets get back to tht post of urs manna was blown off by kk ….manna was blown off by kk in the 70s…. manna whose career n peak time was over by late 60s was blown off by kk in the 70s…. i hope i have read it properly!! manna who gave us songs like ‘chalat musafir’,’dil ka haal suunne’,’laga chunari mein daag’,’yeh ishq ishq hain’,’sur na saaje’; fast forward n come to the 70s n the same guy was playing second fiddle to kk in the song ‘yeh dosti’ thnks not only to the kk wave but also rdb !! manna was blown off way back in the 50s itself by the phenomenon named rafisaab , by the time kk reached his peak manna was a spent force….!!
had rafisaab been not thr manna definitely wud have been the top singer of tht era(but who wud have sung songs for shammi kapoor,dilip kumar n rajendra kumar i dont know)!! dont call manna a loser look in the mirror first u wud find a bigger loser than him…!!!!
Anil ji:
Pl. do not be surprised by the number of Rafi supporters and
lovers. The world is filled with them. This is not to ‘demean’
kishore da in any way. We love all the great artists who has
given us so much happiness.
Last week I was on a pleasant journey to attend a marriage.
A musical evening was kept for the guests a day prior to the
occassion.
There was a flow of Rafi numbers at the venue by singers –
most of them senior doctors in Trichur.
There was one song of Kishore da – Mere Sapnon ki rani kab
aayegi tu, sung by a relative and we enjoyed it to the core.
No.. Rafi lovers are not very old or aged as u think.
The groom is a doctorby profession and a singer by passion.
He is born in 1980 the year Rafi left us.
The lad in the ‘Voice of India’ show on star t.v. Abhas Joshi is just
17 years old; born in 1990 ten years after Rafi left this world.
Kindly do not compare the two great singers and also do not
think too much as you will tend to lose your sleep.
Please enjoy your music is a sincere advice to you.
Binu Nair…. //Mumbai…//
bhaiyya,
during the ‘so called golden days’ we had really dynamic heros like ‘bharat bhushan, rajendra kumar, dilip kumar, ‘yawn”. ‘do sitaron ka zamin’ kind of songs?????
I am surprised.
The current lot of men (born in and around 1970) do love ‘yeh sham mastani, mere deewane pan ki, chookar mere man ko’. Even talking about the current lot of singers … they sing in their ‘natural voice’… a kind of voice that was so much publicised by Kishore Kumar.
There is no denying of the fact that Rafi was a good singer. But the point to note is that the current music trend (or should I call it the ‘latest’ and ‘enjoyable’ trend) is more of a Kishore Kumar kinda songs.
Well I re-visited this site after quite a few days, and I am amused at the comments made by the pro-Rafi fans. I believe this lot of men are fanatic.
Thanks,
Partha.
Only Rafi was a perfect singer.No other singer had his modulations.Kishore Kumar’s rise in film singing coincided with decline in music.Music became noisy,more of cacophany than melody.In Indian film music was at its best in fifties and early sixties,kishore was nowhere.He was known for his clownish acting and singing.He can’t be compared with any of the great singers like Talat,Mukesh,Hemant etc.Even Mahendra Kapoor is better though the number of songs sung by him is negligible.The quality of music can’t be determined by the ignorant masses but by those who are well-versed in the field.By common consent,K.L.Saigal is rated very high as a singer.The reason is he poured his soul into songs which had poetry of very high quality.Talat has sung Ghalib and other very great poets.Then in more recent times.Sahir Ludhianvi was wonderfully rendered by Rafi.Songs like Maine shayad tumhen pehle bhi kabhi dekha hai or kabhi khud pe kabhi halaat pe rona aya or chalo ik bar phir se ajnabi ban jayen ham dono were beyond Kishore’s singing capabilities.Kishore was more of a showman than an artist.kishore is liked by those who love shore(meaningless noise).
In any case,the debate is futile because tastes are acquired through assiduous efforts.Why don’t the masses listen to classical music?Because classical music requires trained sensibilities.Those who don’t have time or inclination to refine their taste opt for low quality.
Some Bengali brethren seem to support Kishore simply for ethnic reasons.But Bengal has very high traditions of music.May I know which Bengali songs has Kishore sung,including Rabinder Sangeet?
RAfi’s voice was swet but not sexy unlike kishore.
Mr. Anil I would call you the greatest joke ever if you keep loving KK once you are 40 years old. It’s your frustration, nothing else. How can you generalize music based on age? There was this guy on “Sare ga Ma little champs” who sang “Albela sajan Aayo Re”. It’s a pure classical song. He was hardly ten years old. What it tells us all is that age will never define good music. All you need is good musical ears. Your views are blasphemous. By the way I am pretty young. KK no doubt was a rare talent, but does not even come close to Rafi. Rafi and Lata are beyond comparision. You can compare rest of the singers with KK. As I mentioned in one of my earleir posts, please refer to the Outlook survey to clear your doubts. KK was not even mentioned in the most popular singer category. Only Rafi and Lata found a mention. KK doesn’t become the best because you think so. Rafi towers over KK because the public and the real music lovers think so. Accept the fact. Rafi did playback for Kk a number of times, despite him being a good singer. As a singer KK was one-dimensional where as Rafi on the other hand was multi-dimensional. KK used to sing flat. He had very few variations. Rafi was a singer for all occassions and all kinds of songs. He didn’t have any particular style. He could mould his voice as the situation demanded.
Excuse me? For all I care, if Kishore had not been in the music industry, it still would have done fine. And when you say Rafi fans are fanatic and have no sense of music, I can smell the same fanaticism and lack of musical sense in you when you uphold Kishore.
No. I’m not aged. I’m 19. And I love Rafi. That’s just a blatant generalization.
I am surprised at people who say Rafi is better than kishore. I guess most of the people who LIKE rafi are quite aged probably in their 40’s , 50’s.
Kishore voice is awesome and so melodious. The youthfulness that kishore brings in his songs.
I think people who say Rafi is better than Kishore are fanatics and probably do not have any sense of music.
Imagine the music industry without Kishore! I can’t even dream of that. But if Rafi wouldn’t have been there it really wouldn”t have made any difference.
KISHORE is a blessing.
Hi Muhajid,
Your comment – “So, stop living in the past and move on with the times.”
We all move with times perhaps the past music and melodies are too perfect and melodious to be forgotten for ever. The same holds true for KK’s contribution of the early 70s as well.
The music of films you mentioned Ashiqui, Dilwale Dulhaniya le jayenge, Yes boss, Hum dil de chuke sanam is good but cannot be placed on par with the songs of 50s, 60s and early 70s, just no way man. Because there is big different between a good and a great music.
A classic example is Umrao Jaan of 1981 and that of 2006. Both films are good. I would not like to compare Rekha with Ashwayria, she acted exceptional well. But the Umrao Jaan of 2006 failed because of the music lacked the “Moghali Touch” compared to the former.
Coming back to the songs 50s and 60s sung by any singer (leave Rafi aside) give tremendous piece of mind, which I believe is very much needed in todays hectic life style.
Commenting of Rafi listen to songs “O Duniya Ke Rakhwale”; “Mann Tadpat Hari Darshan”; “Madhuban Mein Radhika”; “Mann Re Tu Kaahe Naa Dhir”, etc when you suffer from 102 degree fever next time. Your fever will come down to 99. It is a tried and tested. In other words Rafi’s voice possesses remedial powers.
Possibly you may be aware that music is used in practice to cure illness & diseases in many countries world wide.
One thing I’ve noticed is the gradual decline in the complexity of songs as KK became famous. That speaks about how singing had become “relatively easy”. All you needed was a good resonating voice, and the composers would create songs that would suit your voice, and won’t demand much. If you had a good voice and could hold tune, the songs were not that difficult to sing. Not unlike the 50s where the composers composed an amazing array of songs, and the singers had to adapt.
Makes me wonder could KK ever sing Man Tarpad Hari Darshan, or O Duniya Ke Rakhwaale. Yes, KK had a beautiful resonating voice, but the range of songs was limited. Yes, you may now argue that KK sang classical songs too, but none of those classical songs compare to what Rafi sang.
My point here is not to argue over who is better. But rather to highlight how the musical standards (if held against true Hindustani, raga-based, classic music) have fallen, ever since Rafi bid-adieu. With that, I’ll leave you to speculate now who is actually better?
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Mujahid : Please do not degrade ‘the golden era songs’ . you may
not have an ear for these ‘ golden works of pure joy ‘ crafted
by able men and women – with their blood and sweat.
But, I am sure that your next generation and many more may on
occassions burst in to evergreen classic songs : Baar Baar din ye
ayeh, from farz; Yahoo, chaahe koi mujhe junglee….. (Junglee)
Teri pyaari pyari surat ko.. kisi ke nazar na lage.. (Sasural)
Yeh jo mohabbat hai (Kati Patang); Baharon phool barsaao, mera
mehboob aaya hai(Suraj); Tumna Mujhe dekha hokar meherban (
Teesri Manzil), Hui shaam unaka khayaal aa gaya; Jil mil sitaron
ka aaangan hoga (Jeevan Mrityu); Mere mehboob khayamat hogi –
Kishore- Mr.X; Pal Pal dil ke saath – Kishore ; and many many many
great ‘golden’ numbers. The list is endless.
It will be beyond you to stop your generations and your great
grand-sons and grand daughters – away from listening to these
‘greatest gems’ from the music sphere.
Binu Nair…; Mumbai..
Debjyoti, stop being a parrot. It might mimic speech and cram up a few lines, but still remains a parrot. You are like a newborn baby who only knows how to cry. I would suggest you and others like you to go through the survey conducted by the “OUTLOOK” magazine about the best ever songs from hindi films. Mohd. Rafi has seven songs compared to KK’s two in the top twenty. Guess what! Rafi’s song “Man re tu kahe na dheer dhare”, was voted the best ever. Don’t be srprised if you don’t find KK in the list of the most popular playback singers ever (Only Rafi and Lata are listed). To lend credibility to the survey, the jury included lyricists, singerrs and music directors from Bollywood. A few of them included Abhijeet, Kumar Sanu, Sonu Nigham, Shaan, Manna Dey,Anu Malik, Bhappi Lahri, Himesh Reshmmaiya, Rajesh Roshan,Shantanu Moitra, Ehsaan, Loy, Gulzaar and others. What does it tell us? Do I need to elaborate? Even Lata had only six songs in the top twenty. Again I am not referring to this survey to demean KK. He was a great singer, and will always remain so. But accept it or not my friend, Rafi is just beyond comparision. Yes, if you talk about someone who could act, sing and compose, ofcourse KK was way above the rest of them, Rafi included. The sum of parts was greater than the individual in his case. Rafi on the other hand was a pure playback singer. The way he stressed on each and every word in the song was sheer magic. Someone had once remarked that” if god were to sing, he would sing in Rafi’s voice”. Please stop demeaning Rafi. As a human being he was spotless and perfect . He never hurt anybody while he was alive. In fact, he helped so many people in the film industry financially and in other ways. Those who write just to trash the best singer that we ever had, should learn from his life as to how to conduct oneself in social domain with humility and a pupose.
Vikram,
Thanks for the complement.
BTW, please don’t talk about comments made by Manna Dey. He is one of the losers when it comes to Hindi Film Industry. He definitely is a very good singer (no one could have sung ‘laaga chunari mein daag’ more lucidly/fluently than him), but unfortunately the advent of ‘Kishore Kumar’ just threw him out of the industry. Hence he has ‘extreme envy’ when it comes to Kishore Kumar. The comments that Manna Dey makes about Kishore Kumar just brings out the poor old man’s frustration. Thats it!
There is no replacement for Kishore Kumar as the ‘KING of HINDI PLAYBACK INDUSTRY’. Thats it. I am just re-iterating what I and a whole bunch of other ‘intellects’ have been suggesting/insisting.
Thanks,
Partha.
Mujahid : Open ur ears and listen to classics and go down the
memory lane a bit.
Listen to Kishore, rafi, mukesh, hemant, saighal, talat, lata,
asha and others.
You will find that rafi has sung all type of songs including classicals
which places him – head and shoulders high from all singers.
We all love Kishore ji but please do not be biased and run down
the golden era songs.
Kishore Kumar too belonged to this ‘great era’ sir.
Binu Nair.
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Partha, you are improving with every post of yours. Your choice of words seems to be getting better. KK was definitely a great exponent of playback singing. Rafi had once remarked that nobody could have sung “Dukhi man mere”, better than KK. They had mutual admiration for each other. I don’t think they ever had any rivalry between them. But to say that Kishore was a better singer then Rafi would just not be right. Rafi’s voice was out of this world. Even Manna Dey (He knows a little something about music) accepts the fact that Mohd. Rafi was way above the rest of the competition. Facts can not be changed. Can you change Newton’s laws of motion?
Lastly, ‘Well said Mujahid’. You do prove the theory that ‘KK fans are better intellects’ and ‘not a bunch of insane jokers’.
Partha.
There is this KK classic.
‘Chingari koyi bhadke ..’
Thats what is happening at the moment 🙂
Partha.