An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980. […]
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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I am sorry for Humjoli…It was printing mistake for me…You are right “AA mere humjoli from Jeene ki Raah…LP typical music in both film.
My friend, I am not biased. What do u mean abt same line in “CHUPKE CHUPKE”? Both singer sang Mukhada and Antara…Kishore sang “SA RE GA MA…” and Rafi followed brilliantly “PA dha pa ma…”.
What else u need dost…?
Regarding ur question:
WHY LP (RAFI SYMPATHIZERS) WOULD KEEP ON PRODUCING THESE DUETS IF HE WAS CONSISTENTLY OUTCLASSED?
My reply: LP is only MD who really maintain the balanced relation between Rafi and Kishore, and Kishore and Rafi were 2 greats available during that time. I would like to clear one point here, I think Rajesh Roshan and LP were two MDs who composed more duets (Kishore/Rafi) duets than anybody else.
Rajesh Roshan:
– All sogs from AAP Ke Diwane
– Doosra AAdmi
– Swayamvar
Adding to the Rafi>>>Lata list:
1. Mere mehboob tujhe
2. Ehsan tera hoga mukh par
3. Jiya O jiya o jiya kuch bol do
4. Akele hai chale aao
5. Jab jab bahar ayee (Taqdeer)
6. Dil jo na keh saka
7. Teri aakhon ke siva
8. Pardesiyon se na aakhiyan milana
9. Zindagi bhar nahin bhoolegi (how many people know there is a Lata version?)
10. Rang aur noor ki barat (Lata’s lyrics are different though)
Ashu:
“3. Kya mousam hai….(Doosra Aadmi) (Rafi was great, but not better, because his line got different rhythm)
4. SA RE GA MA PA..(Chupke chupke)”
-This shows your biased judgment. Did Kishore and Rafi get the same lines in Sa re GA ma pa? be consistent, man..
If you say they were equal in Dostana, you are simply biased. I can’t say anything. You have not answered me: WHY LP (RAFI SYMPATHIZERS) WOULD KEEP ON PRODUCING THESE DUETS IF HE WAS CONSISTENTLY OUTCLASSED?
Ashu:
“3. Kya mousam hai….(Doosra Aadmi) (Rafi was great, but not better, because his line got different rhythm)
4. SA RE GA MA PA..(Chupke chupke)”
-This shows your biased judgment. Did Kishore and Rafi get the same lines in Sa re G ma pa? be consistent, man..
If you say they were equal in Dostana, you are simply biased. I can’t say anything. You have not answered me: WHY LP (RAFI SYMPATHIZERS) WOULD KEEP ON PRODUCING THESE DUETS IF HE WAS CONSISTENTLY OUTCLASSED?
Ashu:
First of all “aa mere humjoli” is from jeene Ki Raah. Secondly, I am not too bothered about non-musical parts of a song like ““Main AAooo” or “Chak chak chak” in Zamana ko dikhana hai.. You can call it my musical taste. Third, I do not think Rafi sang out of tune there. His mellowed voice is less suitable for these non-musical parts (not a big fault, to me). Kishore being an actor is good in these such as “Kya likhu?” in Goom hai kiski pyar mein. But as I said I do not count those parts essential to a song.
Coming to Lata and Rafi, I do not want to start a new topic but I can go on and on..There is good reason why the Mangeshkars are uncomfortable with Rafi. This man could take them on without any clout and publicity. This man was saint, used to work from 9-5 without any back biting or lobbying…No one including Kishore challenged the supremacy of the Mangeshkars. Unfortunately Rafi did (Royalty issue, OP Nayyar issue, dispute on Guiness book record, disagreement on songs, etc)..Rafi surely trampled on the tail of the Mangeshkar snake and paid heavily for that in the 70s.. Few examples why the elder Mangeskar is uncomfortable with Rafi:
1. Mere mehboob tujhe
2. Ehsan tera hoga mukh par
3. Jiya O jiya o jiya kuch bol do
4. Akele hai chale aao
5. Jab jab bahar ayee (Taqdeer)
6. Dil jo na keh saka
7. Teri aakhon ke siva
8. Pardesiyon se na aakhiyan milana
In the above songs, all of which were hits, people remember only the Rafi version. Lata version has sunk into oblivion. The only song where I think Lata outclassed Rafi was “Sajan sajan pukaroon galiyon mein”. I can now get started with duet where Lata was simply eclipsed..But I will reserve that for another time..
My dear friend Vipul..
Last reply was not for you…It was for SUDIP.
Sorry…….
Sorry Vipul,
I did not read ur last blog completely. I read it now and found completely biased.
Kishore sound far better than Rafi in Parvarish “HUM premi prem karna jaane”.
In Dostana…they were equal
Badalatey Rishte….Kishore overshadow Rafi.
And as u mention Kishore was outclassed in “Deedar E yaar” and “SHAAN”.
Let me remind u couple of other duets where Kishore outclassed Rafi..
1. Ek mahal ma chhamchha karti rahti dui shadazi (Swyamavar)
2. Tumko khush dekkhar main bahut khush hua (Appke Diwane)
3. Kya mousam hai….(Doosra Aadmi) (Rafi was great, but not better, because his line got different rhythm)
4. SA RE GA MA PA..(Chupke chupke)
5. Mile jo kadi kadi..(Kasme Vaade)…Rafi was good…sing for AMitabh
6. one song from WAARISH (sorry. i don;t remeber song..kishore sang for Mehmood and Rafi sang for Jeetendra)
All above songs, kishore was outstanding except Doosra Aadmi where Rafi was greatly matched…
Dear Sudip,
Not only i heard but also i watched Ladies Tailor when it telecast on TV. “Bandal movie” though i like Sanjeev Kumar as actor.
Is there any feud between Lata and Usha Uthup? No ..
My dear friend, don’t derail the topic. I believe Asha sounded better than Usha Uthup in couple of songs they sang together (Hare ram hare krishna and other under Bappi composition).
Lata sound better than Rafi in Humjoli whihc i posted in previous blog..
“AA mere humjoli aa..” There was a line where Lata sung “Main AAooo” Rafi sang “NA nA” many time and last he sang “AAAAAAAAAAAAAjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjaaaaaaaaaaaa” which sound very bad to me (very very thin voice.).
Please listen…. I don;t want to degrade Rafi. This is just one of many example where Rafi went wrong…and sound second to other singer.
ASHU:
“Pls. hear “JAANU mERI JAAN” from same movie…Rafi was completely eclipsed.”
– This is where I have a problem with Kishore fans. You are judging singing by the dominance of the voice.
KISHORE KUMAR (and AMIT KUMAR) HAD THE MOST BARITONE, OPEN-THROATED, DEEP BASS VOICE IN THE post 1950 (since we never heard Saigal , Pankaj Mullick under modern recording). If you make a judgment based on that RAFI WILL BE ECLIPSED BY KISHORE (AND AMIT) in each and every song they sing together. Even the best songs of Rafi will sound eclipsed by Kishore if he sings them. That way:
-Lata will be always eclipsed by Usha Uthup in a duet (I have very high regards for the open, deep bass voice of Usha).
-Talat Mehmood will always be eclipsed by Sudesh Bhosle or any Kishore clone.
-Roop Kumar Rathod will be dominated by his brother Vinod Rathod.
BUT……………….This is NOT ABOUT A WRESTLING MATCH. This is about singing..Who handles the surs perfectly, the harkateins better and of course voice. I personally think in both “Jaanu Meri Jaan” and “Mere dildar ka bakhpan” Kishore sang better. But Rafi was better in “Baney chahe dushman” or “Na Janey kaise” and also in “Hum premee prem karna janey”. In all these songs Rafi was hitting notes that Kishore completely avoided. In fact, Kishore was open throated to the point of being hoarse in “Na janey kaise” (Badaltey Rishtey). 4 of the above 5 songs were by LP. If LP indeed thought Rafi was consistently outclassed, they would have stopped producing the KK-Rafi duets (especially since LP were Rafi sympathizers). Even they thought it can be a Yugalbandi between baritone and sweetness, bass and melody.
A final point on Rafi. Yesterday I was listening to the Ladies Tailor (1981) songs on youtube. In the movie Rafi sang for an “old” Sanjeev Kumar and a young Sanjeev Kumar. Two of the songs are:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Uben4Bz8h6Q (young Sanjeev Kumar)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJn0HJzc_o8 (old Sanjeev Kumar)
If you listen to them you will almost think they are sung by two different singers with completely different tonal bass. I do not think any singer in history could do that without resorting to a single falsetto. Amazing….Hats-off Rafi saab..
Vikram,
u wrote:
If religion was a factor, there would not have been a ‘Man Tarpat Hari’ Or a ‘O Duniya Ke Rakhwale’. Did you know these two bhajans were penned by a muslim? And ofcourse you already know about the singer and the composer. It took three devout muslims to come together and create the two most divine bhajans in the annals of the hindi film playback history. Rafi was way beyond religion. For that matter anybody who practices any form of art would fall under this category. Please don’t even mention it. I am sure there are a lot of muslims who would want to participate in this debate, but are scared to be called names by KK fanatics. Please do not stoop so low that it may not even be possible for you guys to stand up straight again. Don’t you have a conscience?
My reply:
Before replying blog..Pls. read others blog. I strogly believe music has no language. I am big fan of Gulam Ali, but i am not muslim. I am greatest fan of Kishore, but i am not Bengali.
Pls. don’t bother to tell me something which u dont follow who wrote abt Bengalis first. My blog was replied to that…
Best bhajan to me is not what u mentioned: They are…
1. Maine Ram Ratan dhan Payo
2. Vaishnavo tanke tene kahiye
3. Mangal bhavan amangal hari
My dear friend Vipul,
I already replied ur blog, but somehow it was blocked by Admin. I don;t know why…I never said anything wrong.
If you think Rafi is best..I don’t have any issue. I don’t know what is ur analysis. I remember i have replied to all ur post with proper evidence.
To me, Rafi is always behind Kishore and Mukesh (especially in SAD songs). And he is one of the best.
Kishore was innovative. I believe this is big difference between these two legends. Rafi sang more songs. does it mean he was best :). Very difficult to digest. 🙂 🙂
From 69 to till his (Rafi’s) end, He sang less song than Kishore…Please do analysis and come back to me….
— Is Tendulkar best batsman ?
–No.. Ask any cricket legends they will name Vivian Richard, Brian Lara. It doesn’t mean Sachin is not best, but he is one of the best.
If i go with ur analysis then Kumar Sanu is better than Rafi..He could 5 consecutive Filmfare award…My dear friend,,,All these analysis doesn’t work…
I don’t avoid competition. I love challenges…Evidence is all my blogs…
I would like to comments on more number of songs sung by Rafi in other regional languages and Hindi.
First…
– He was cheaper than KISHORE (during Kishore’s wave)
– He always go with Music Director’s creativity…Doesn’t oppose them if they are wrong. Kishore was very straight, in front of MDs he used to say this is bad or good composition which many people did not like…
I think these 2 analysis was enough for you.
All Radio Station said that if all singer are came in together they cannot able to make a RAFI, he is 95% perfect singer for all heroes and 100% perfect for Shammi Kapoor, Guru Dutt , Jony wALKER
My dear friends,
Vipul, KK is not best in some categories, that is ur personal choice. People like you always question abt Kishore’s qawallis, bhajan and other categories of songs. PLease see my post where i have mentioned Kishore’s Qawallis, Bhajan and Patriotic songs.
I must say Rafi was good, but not best in any categories. Kishore was best in few categories. Kishore was innovative where Rafi was follower of music.
“Yamma Yamma” song…Personally i believe Rafi was no where in front of RD, because it was situational base song. Since Kishore was voice of Amitabh, and situation was Amitabh needed to change his voice to misguide SHAKAL (kulbhishan Kharbanda)…So my dear friend thatis a reason why RDB sang for Amitabh. Pls. hear “JAANU mERI JAAN” from same movie…Rafi was completely eclipsed.
Many time, Rafians as per their comfort say Kishore put Rafi’s potrait in his Bunglow….It is completely somebody false imagination. I visited his bunglow, and there is only one potrait of K L Saigal who was his GURU.
There are only four person kishore admire “K.L. Saigal; Marlon Brando; Boris Karloff; and Topol”.
Rafians are famous for “KHAYALI POLAV”.
I must say both legends did respect each other.
Lastly, I watched Kishore;s interview taken by Lata herself. She asked who is his fav. singer, he promptly replied “K L SAIGAL”, then she asked who is next. You know what he replied “AAMI”.
Not only me but million people agree to that 🙂
ztas 77 wrote:
WHY RD chose Rafi to sing the majority of HIS “Qawaali” compositions over Kishore?
Reason is simple. kk was not suitable for qawalli. Rafi was the best choice.
Same eason for Classical songs, Patriotic songs, Bhajnas. kk was simply not good enuf. Rafi was best in all these categories..
Ashu.. iam sure you will agree 🙂
Ashu said “BUt if i leave Hindi and consider other languages songs sung by both legends in quantity and quality, then of course Kishore has edge.
Could you prove it that kk is better in other languags than Rafi? Just bcos you like kk more than Rafi, you think kk is better huh?
Dear… make sure that your statment is supported with enough proof.
Rafi sang more song in other languages than kk bcos he was preferred more than kk. ( as simple as that). Hope you got it?
By the way Rafi has already won on first 3 points I mentioned. Now let us move to 4th point. (Versatility)
Who is more versatile? Do you want to start s debate ? 🙂 I am sure about who is more versatile. I have already proved it. Now you need to bring other singers like like Jagjit Singh, Suresh wadkar, Mehendi Hasan to defend poor kk. cmon ashu,.. lets fight it out…
Ashu says Quality means popular.. wow
Ashu, you are awesome… mindblowing… I never knew this meaning of quality.
and by the way, how do you know that kk is more popular than Rafi. Please bring yor proof else your statement has no value.
Aaja Aaja Main Hoon Pyar would have definitely sounded better in Kishore Kumar’s voice. The KK barritone would give this song the PUNCH that Rafi’s relatively softer voice did not provide in the song. Rafi’s voice was too weak and soft in that song. The punch & barritone would give the songer greater tone & energy IMO. So why didn’t RDB use KK here? I never understood what “punch” Rafians talk about in that song except perhaps the beginning. My guess is Nasir Hussain & Shammi Kapoor and the trends set by Rafi loyalists Shankar Jaikishan.
Ashu wrote:
“Quality means popular. There is no other parameter to measure quality”
-Then Playboy magazine is the best book ever written.
I read this Interview with RD, about how Rafi had to struggle to keep up! Was this Interview taken place on April Fools day!! I had to laugh!! If anyone is to believe this suspected manipulated so called Interview then their a bigger fool then they might think! If the mighty RD really said this, then :-
HOW come Rafi had WON the filmfare award & WON the National award on HIS “Kya huwa tera vaada” composition?? Kishore NEVER won this COMBINATION with an RD composition!
WHY RD chose Rafi to sing the majority of HIS “Qawaali” compositions over Kishore?
After HKSKN, the RD-Rafi combo rate increased, despite Kishore was still RD’s main male singer.
RD’s “Yamma Yamma”, WHY did RD approach Rafi to sing with him, WHY not his favourite Kishore? Rafi’s performance on this song was awsome!!
I’ve got mention this in respect of this so called Interview?? The song “aa ja aa ja” If you have listened to Rafi’s Live UK 1978/79 performance on this song – This will just eat that “suspected” so called ‘Interview’ statement. Rafi’s performace was simply mind blowing, the crowds awsome
cheering had reflected this as with so many other songs on that night!
If any of you die hard Kishore fans are still in doubt? The Live CD album is called “Around the World”. So listen for yourself !!! THATS WHY I HAD TO LAUGH AT THIS “SO CALLED” INTERVIEW ????????????????
If you listen to Rafi’s Live performance ending to “aa ja aa ja”, It will make you think twice if any other singer could have kept up with Rafi’s very fast paced ending!!
correction freind.
For me Rafi saab is no.1 and for you Kishore da is No.1. But for us the Indians both are no.1. Why cant we take it that way and get an end to this dirty subject. Both are great in their own ways. Rafi had range, emotions, depth and kishore is popular. bye.
Hi Ashu,
I love to differ from you on the Kishore and Rafi subject. Its your personal choice to have kishore in mind who is also my favourite actor and singer. He is a very natural singer and could sing songs in one range which the lyricists and composers supported too. I have seen him sing the song NAACH MERI JAAN from the movie MAIN SUNDER HOON AND BECOME his fan. What a great artiste he was. Let me tell you about his greatness. He never used to attend parties generally but whenever he called for his personal party, he never missed Rafi Saab. They were great friends. Only he knew what Rafi saab was I believe. Lets stop comparing these legends who had equal respects for each other. Enjoy both and take your time forward. For me Rafi is no.1 and for you Kishore is No.2. Why cant we become friends and exchange good number of songs of both the gaints.
rgds..Krishnarafian
Mr. Vipul,
You can laugh on anything. I don’t have control. Quality means popular. There is no other parameter to measure quality. 🙂 I am sure you will differ, but i can’t help..
I believe Rafi’s voice during mid 70s turned very very thin. Listen song…from Humjoli..”AA mere hum joli aaaa..”. Rafi sang “Aaajjjjjjjjjaaa” which is real bad, Lata sang same word much much better. I would request you to listen this song before you takepain to reply me.
There is no proof available in the market as per quality concern. BUt if i leave Hindi and consider other languages songs sung by both legends in quantity and quality, then of course Kishore has edge.
Take…
– Marathi
…I think Kishore sang only 2 songs…Both are block buster and chnage the marathi film music industry
– Bhojpuri
— I don’t exactly remember the no. of songs, but all songs which i heard from Kishore and Rafi, i found Kishore sang less than Rafi, and all songs were hits which is not true in case of Rafi (May be due to quantity of songs sung by Rafi)
— Bangali
No comparison to Kishore 🙂
–Malayam and Kannada
Kishore sang only song that was hit.
And now lets talk abt Hindi songs.
Kishore’s hit songs was very high till 69, because he sang less no. of songs. This is the same time when Rafi sang maximum songs.
Pls. listen “BHOOLE BISARE GEET” ..most songs from Rafi..which i don’t prefer to listen. I would like to make one point very clear that Rafi is still my second fav.
Well I am fan of both singers in question. I believe Kishore’s major success was due to his main mentor, RD!!! Therefore because of RD’s trendy popularity, I believe that Kishore had more trendy & catchy songs to sing than Rafi. But is trendy catchy songs a platform to judge a singer’s capabilities? Of course not. I believe to judge a singer’s versatile qualities is of the following :-
1. Purity of voice
2. Range from Low to high & vice versa
3. Depth of emotion
4. Capability of singing in every emotional mood
5. Capability of singing in different styles – Classical-folk-ghazals-bajans-sad-happy-comical-romantic-qawalies-rock & roll-cabaret-disco-philisophical-religious. Anybody could attempt to sing in these styles but only a very few could sing within the depth of these styles.
Personally the top four versatile singers of the yesteryears was Lata,Rafi,Asha & Kishore. But with regards to the above mentioned styles, Rafi did score in every one of them slighty over the others, research for yourself if you don’t believe me!
Bollywood did’nt just start from the 70’s onwards and RD was not the only one! Remember there were non film songs as well. Also remember RD started off with Rafi, Where was Kishore?. Rafi won a filmfare award & a National Award with RD’s “Kya hu wa tera vaada” Did Kishore win this combination with RD?
At the end of the day Rafi & Kishore were two of the greatest male singers of bollywood which cannot be compared with todays singers. Just remember singers of today do have it slight easier with the technology available these days in the studio.
Ashu,
If religion was a factor, there would not have been a ‘Man Tarpat Hari’ Or a ‘O Duniya Ke Rakhwale’. Did you know these two bhajans were penned by a muslim? And ofcourse you already know about the singer and the composer. It took three devout muslims to come together and create the two most divine bhajans in the annals of the hindi film playback history. Rafi was way beyond religion. For that matter anybody who practices any form of art would fall under this category. Please don’t even mention it. I am sure there are a lot of muslims who would want to participate in this debate, but are scared to be called names by KK fanatics. Please do not stoop so low that it may not even be possible for you guys to stand up straight again. Don’t you have a conscience?
Dear Abey,
you said ” take note that for light songs you don’t need a heavenly voice and the cool voice can score over it. in the “cool” genre, the heavenly voice is no less but the cool voice is best suited.”
Heavenly voice and cool voice is your definition. I respect your view that you like both voice.
My reply: Well some people like Rafi and some like KK and some like both. A couple of my friends like Mukesh’s voice more than Rafi and kk. But they also know Mukesh’s limitation in terms of range.
That is not the point. Some like Sachin and some prefer Ganguly and some like both. But in terms of quality and quantity Sachin is far ahead of Ganguly. Same here….
Rafi is far better than kk. Please refer to my 6 points posted above. I agree that you want to avoid competition and comparison of Rafi and KK. But I am here to compare Rafi and kk and let everyone know why Rafi is better than KK.
Ashu, before replying to this post, make sure you reply to my earlier post of those 6 points. I know you have habit of reading what you want and avoiding real comparison.
Ashu, I repeat is Rafi is the best and much better than kk. I have proved it with my analysis. If you want to debate those 6 points, please come up with your reply.
You have already agreed on point 1 and that Rafi sang more songs than kk. Rafi is winner here. Now lets go to point 2. It says Rafi sang for more MD’s than kk (In other words he was preferred by more MD’s than anyone else.) What do you have to say?
Correction – ” the same would NOT hold with rafi and kishore” i can’t believe i didn’t write the NOT. no jokes please! they’re both IRREPLACEABLE and have made hfm so great!
rafi’s voice: “as close to heavenly a human voice can be”
kishore’s voice: “the coolest voice ever” ; my dissatisfaction with this slogan is it doesn’t incorporate kishore’s sad or thoughtful songs which i love very much so i’ll work on that but so far you get a picture.
take note that for light songs you don’t need a heavenly voice and the cool voice can score over it. in the “cool” genre, the heavenly voice is no less but the cool voice is best suited. in the overall spectrum the heavenly voice wins. but to say something wins or is better sort of implies that one can replace the other. if i say a car is better than a horse and buggy – the car can indeed replace the horse and buggy. the same would hold with both rafi and kishore and one must always keep that in mind. a heavenly voice by itself is not enough.
there! the entire debate in two small paragaphs! that should encapsulate you 700+ posts that i have not read.
Ashu, I do not think Sudip was telling that since you could be Bengali so you like KK. He posted the link in Bengali (Which I do not understand) so he was just clarifying that you could get it translated if you want to read.
BTW, we all Rafi supporters (Vikram, Dhani Ram, myself, Sudip, Prabal Das) are not Muslims, but we just luv music so religion does not matter.
Religion does not matter to anyway as I am an atheist.
Manna could have said 1000 different things on Doordarshan (and most of them are provoked by questions). In Anandabazar, with a free hand he mentioned “RAFI WAS THE BEST MALE VOICE EVER”. Pls show me where exactly did he mention the same phrase with other singers?
“Most versatile”, “Greatest maverick”, “one of the greats”, “most popular singer” are NOT the same as “BEST MALE VOICE EVER”. Lets get this clear and not try to misrepresent Manna.
“I saw Manna’s interview on Doordarshan, and again he mentioned same thing abt Rafi and Kishore…”
-So you think Manna was lying in Anandabazar when he categorically said Rafi was the “best male voice ever”? Or was he drunk? Why do you keep wavering?
-When we bring Rafi’s ghazals you bring in Mehdi Hasan
-When I quote Anandabazar, you slip to Doordarshan
Pls answer: WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON MANNA’S WRITING IN ANANDABAZAR? You do not have to accept Rafi’s superiority, but at least lets get an agreement on Manna Dey’s opinion.
When did I say only Bengalis like Kishore? Can’t u even understand that I was checking if you could read the Anandabazar Patrika? That has nothing to do with Kishore.
Ashu said ” At least you are aware of Rafi;s song in quantities. I personally think he would have sung close to 7k songs (including all languages) which is higher in quantity, and in quality he is a way behind Kishore. ”
Ashu saheb, could you justify your statement about quality? Please come up with concrete proof else it will beome a laughing stock for others. I am sure you have more information and knowledge than me and many others .. so you will come up with a proper justification.
Please also reply to al 6 points I mentioned, so that we have a clear debate.
Thanks dear…
sudip,
let me clear ur doubt. I am not Bengali.
Why u people thikn only Bengalis like Kishore?
See. K for Kishore….Only 1 Bengali…
Sachin Tendulkar, Dhouni, Shoaib are not Bengali
We can also say samething for Rafi and Muslims, but i am not so narrow minded….
Sudip,
Good. I like it. At least you are aware of Rafi;s song in quantities. I personally think he would have sung close to 7k songs (including all languages) which is higher in quantity, and in quality he is a way behind Kishore.
I saw Manna’s interview on Doordarshan, and again he mentioned same thing abt Rafi and Kishore…
Sudip, thanks for clarification…. But still Rafi was higher in numbers than KK 🙂
ASHU:
You highlighted “one of the” when it came to Manna Dey talking about Rafi. But dodged the “one of the” when it came to Kishore.
I am not sure if you are a Bengali or can read Bengali. The last time Manna talked publicly about the “greatest male singer ever” (NOT “one of the greatest singers”) was in the obituary for Naushad in the renowned Bengali daily Anandabazar Patrika. A translated version of that obituary is here (pls read the conclusion):
http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=813233
If you suspect this is a handiwork of Rafians, here is the original untranslated version:
http://www.anandabazar.com/archive/1060513/13nibon.htm
In case you cannot read Bengali, pls get someone who can read Bengali to read it for you. I am not saying Rafi is best because Manna says so, but setting facts straight on Manna Dey’s opinions.
VIPUL:
Let me correct you that Rafi has NOT sung 26000 songs. If Rafi has indeed sung 26000 songs it shows him in bad light because he would have a poorer song:hit ratio than KK.
Rafi has sung around 5000 Hindi film songs (a little more than KK). When Lata claimed to record the highest number of songs, Rafi contested saying that he then has sung 26000 times. It means he has been recorded 26000 times (each song can have multiple takes, each song can be used in several parts, etc). Not 26000 songs.
Vipul, Mere dost…
Where r u 🙂 ? No messages…What happened 🙂
Rafi was anytime far better than KK. Why? Here is the analysis…
1> Rafi sang about 26000+ songs compared to KK’s 5000+ songs in entire career. (please correct me if I am wrong)/ It is because Rafi was more preferred by MD’s. If Rafi would have been low in quality as mentioned by Ashu, you think Indian MD’s do not have music sense as they were inclined towards Rafi more than anyone else? In terms of sheer quantity Rafi is winner. (BTW, Ashu what happened to your own music sense when you made that statment about quality 🙂 )
2> Rafi sang for more MD’s than kk. Even for RD (kk’s favourite) Rafi sang 100+ songs (please correct me if I am wrong). The same was not true for kk. KK hardly sang or sang very few songs for Naushad, OP, Madan Mohan or SJ. (Rafi’s favourite) Rafi is winner again..
3> Rafi sang many songs in many different languages (apart from Hindi and Punjabi, his mother tongue). KK sang most of his songs in Hindi and Bangla. Rafi wins here too.
4> KK’s comfort zone in singing was limited to Romantic songs, sad songs, fact paced and fun songs. He hardly tried outside his comfort zone. Rafi was right there in all those categories and he can sing also Ghazals, Patriotic songs, Classical, Bhajans, Quwallis folk songs etc.(he sang many in each category). In short, His comfort zone was very big, so big that he can almost sing any kind of song. Rafi is a clear winner here too.
5> Rafi gave playback for KK too (as many as 11 times). Why kk need Rafi for vocal for his own song on screen?
6> Finally Rafi and Lata were declared best male and female playback singer of last century. Where was kk?
Hope I am clear now.
you are a great singer and my favorite
You highlighted “one of the” when it came to Manna Dey talking about Rafi. But dodged the “one of the” when it came to Kishore.
I am not sure if you are a Bengali or can read Bengali. The last time Manna talked publicly about the “greatest male singer ever” (NOT “one of the greatest singers”) was in the obituary for Naushad in the renowned Bengali daily Anandabazar Patrika. A translated version of that obituary is here (pls read the conclusion):
http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=813233
If you suspect this is a handiwork of Rafians, here is the original untranslated version:
http://www.anandabazar.com/archive/1060513/13nibon.htm
In case you cannot read Bengali, pls get someone who can read Bengali to read it for you.
Vipul…
I am still firm with my words about ur musical sense 🙂
Manna Dey talks abt Rafi and Kishore from this link:
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“Rafi was a wonderful person, a trendsetter in singing, he evolved a style of his own which I used to follow too. Talat Mehmood was also unique. Kishore Kumar was one of the most versatile singers of our industry; he ruled the popularity charts like nobody else.” Though not a fan of Western music, he likes listening to old favourites like Frank Sinatra and Bing Crosby, both of whom he adored during his college days.
**Available at http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2003/06/02/stories/2003060201370100.htm
===============================================
And one more link on Manna Dey said abt RDB and SDB, though personally i am not completely agree…….
==============================================
Comparing the two Burmans he said, “People often say Sachin Dev Burman was a great composer. Yes, he was but I feel Pancham was one step ahead of his father.”
** AVailable at:
http://www.cinemasangeet.com/cinema/articles/?a=382
==============================================
Hope u r clear now…:)
Vipul,
Mere dost, There are many interview by Manna Dey. I already posted many on same site and Rafi site. And ha Manna never said that Rafi is only best, Pls. read carefully. He said “RAFI was one of the best of all time”
Pls. listen a song…”JAADU DAAL GAYE Re…mo pe baanke Bihari”. Check the Kishore’s range. I personally believe only Manna Dey aftre Kishore could manage to sing this song.
I respect ur view..if u think Rafi is best..I don’t have issue. BUt who proved it he is only best. Don’t conclude something which is debatable since last 37 yrs.
This is taken from EternalRafi website.. What Manna Dey thinks about Rafi…
“Rafi was the complete singer who could sing everything. Among the frontline singers, only he and I would be called to sing every kind of song. And I did not grudge that he always remained ahead of me because he was a far better singer than I was. I rate Mohammad Rafi as one of the very best of all time. He was undoubtedly one of the very best. He was self-taught and he made a style of his own, and I would rate him the icon in playback singing.”
I think Manna babu has worst music sense like me 🙂
one more thing.. as per me Rafi is far more better than KK as Rafi is more versatile. We all have proved that. Again, I think Rafi is better than KK bcos I have got worst music sense!
Thanks Ashu.. I agree that my music sense is worst. Thanks for telling me that. But postive aspect is atleast I know that my music sense is worst.
However in some cases, I have seen many people with worst music sense but that is not the problem. The problem is that they do not even know about it.
Thanks dear and take care…
This blog is only for VIPUL..
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Vipul,
I am sorry to say that u got worst music sense. First of all, Abhijeet voice is not like Kishore, Abhijeet tries to imitate him.
I feel Sonu is much versatile than Rafi, because he can sing classical as well as rap, westen 🙂
How is it?
My dear friend Vikram,
This is what the problem with you guys…Even though u people know the truth, but fight for false thing.
But i m gald that u like it.
Vipul wrote: “In KK clone, I prefer Abhijeet. Sometimes I feel Abhijeet is even better than KK (sounds funny rite! . But his voice is softer than KK according to me)”
-That’s because he (Abhijeet) sings in falsetto. Any singer, including me 🙂 sounds sweet on a falsetto note. True sweetness should come out regardless of the note and the song. Rafi was sweet even in “Main jat Yamla” or “Nagin sa roop hai tera”..One may not like the song but one cannot deny Rafi’s sweetness in these antras.
Thanks Vikram…. the site you mentioned is awesome… Thanks…
Sudip, Kumar Sanu has very limited range. He can not sing on high notes. To bring softness to his voice he goes nasal. He is same as Mukesh in terms of range. As of now he has no work as every1 realised his weaknesses and today’s best MD, A R Rehman has not used him even once!
I think in current singers, I have high regards for Udit (for his freshness), Alka Yagnik, Kavita K, Sukhwinder Singh (for his amazing range), Hariharan and Shreya Ghosal. Sonu is good too as he is more versatile like his mentor (Rafi) but somehow I feel there is something missing in his voice. Technically he is sound and can sing difficult songs too.
In KK clone, I prefer Abhijeet. oSmetimes I feel Abhijeet is even better than KK (sounds funny rite! . But his voice is softer than KK according to me)
Ashu ji,
I take back whatever I said about the song ‘Meri Pyari Bindu’. It’s not at all a bad song. After hearing it a couple of times, I started kind of liking it.