An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980. […]
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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ref to p 899::
sudip ji,
nice post but i think composition wise kishore’s songs were better in year 1975, his songs from aandhi and khusboo were excellent and remeber that gulzar was never the mainstream film maker..
junior roshan got the award for the jullie(1975), but i consider aandhi, khusboo as much higher quality albums than other commercial hits like julie, sholay & khel khel mein…
tere bina zindagi se , tum aa gaye ho were the compositions of caliber to turn any mediocre singer to superstar, on the other hand that amaanat song, had it been delivered by someone else, it would have been gone unnoticed…
in 70s rafi ji hardly got any tunes of his caliber, may b coz of changing trends, how eaisly he rendered all those tunes of 70s…
retyping: I have more time
———————————
“MM, SJ, LP switching to Kishore”
-Here I am partly with Ashu. Though it is wrong that they “switched” to Kishore. It is better to phrase “MM, SJ, LP switched from Rafi monopoly”.
But what is not clear is whether that was driven my merit or the market (i.e. producers-see my post 883).
Kishore’s rise owed as much to technology as to the Burmans and the changing trend. Towards the end of the 60’s two things happened:
1. Introduction of a more sensitive recording systems, that would capture every breath and accentuate every ups or downs.
2. Increasing Western influence and more instrumentation
I learnt from Manna De’s account that Talat Mehmood perished because of #1. Talat’s quivering voice was over-accentuated by the sensitive recording equipment, so much so, that he had to leave the playback singing scene entirely. Everyone struggled other than Kishore. Because of Kishore’s deep, barritone voice he was able to overcome both the changes. The voice outpowered both instrumentation and sensitive recording instruments. Manna also mentioned that despite initial struggles, Rafi was able to adapt to it thanks to his relentless “riyaz”.
I also think that the nature of music changed in 1970s, thanks to Western influence. The mainstream songs of the 1970s suited Kishore. If you look at the bulk of songs in 1970s, they needed clean, open-throated voice with clear diction and simple approach. That was tailored for Kishore. Even me, as an MD, would have taken Kishore for such songs. To me, personally, a song like “Ek main aur ek tu” has no marginal value or contribution in the history of film music. Even if that song hadn’t happened, it would not change anything for me..But that’s me, the multitude love such songs from the 1970s. Whenever Music directors needed to move out of the mainstream path they needed Rafi and in some cases Yesudas, Bhupinder, etc.
1975 was largely touted as Kishore’s year.. He had so many excellent songs in 1975 like the ones in Aadhi, Mehbooba, Ghar. But to me, the best song of that year, qualitatively, came from Rafi. The song was “Door rehkar na karo baat” (Amaanat). But the song was not a mainstream 70s song. That is the reason for Kishore’s numerical superiority in the 70s.
ashu,
do you think 1977 is the only time rafi went on world tour? yes, he gave a bbc interview in 77, but he travelled the world on MULTIPLE occasions!
1969, during the recording of aradhana – was ANOTHER OCCASION where rafi went on world tour. i should have clarified this in the last post.
he even had high demand in holland!
“MM, SJ, LP switching to Kishore”
-Here I am partly with Ashu. Though it is wrong that they “switched” to Kishore. It is better to phrase “MM, SJ, LP switched from Rafi monopoly”.
But what is not clear is whether that was driven my merit or the market (i.e. producers-see my post 883).
I also think that the nature of music changed in 1970s thanks to Western influence. The mainstream songs of the 1970s suited Kishore. If you look at the bulk of songs in 1970s, they needed clean, open throated voice with clear diction and simple approach. That was tailored for Kishore. Even me, as an MD, would have taken Kishore for such songs. To me, personally, a song like “Ek main aur ek tu” has no marginal value in the history of film music. Even if that song hadn’t happened, it would not change anything for me..But that’s me- the multitude love such songs from the 1970s. Whenever Music directors needed to move out of the mainstream path they needed Rafi and in some cases Yesudas, Bhupinder, etc.
1975 was largely touted as Kishore’s year.. He had so many excellent songs in 1975. But to me, the best song of that year, qualitatively, came from Rafi. The song was “Door rehkar na karo baat” (Amanat). But the song was not a mainstream 70s song. That is the reason for Kishore’s numerical superiority in the 70s.
ashu: every word of what i wrote to you (e.g rafi was out on world tour) – was sourced by shakti samanta. once on vivid bharati he said it and recently with his chat to binu nair. of course you could allege that binu nair or shakti samanta on vivid bharati are mistaken (or perhaps shakti wants to avoid controversy or be nice) – but i’m inclinded to believe these sources UNLESS you have an equally reliable, primary source that says otherwise. this issue certainly doesn’t make or break anyting – i’m pursuing it only because i’m curious. SHAKTI samanta himself said that rafi had to leave for world tour after the two songs, and was out of the country for the remaining recordings that kishore did (upon rafi’s kind request btw…this is not the first or second, or third time rafi has tipped off / requested songs go to his fellow singers to MDs – he was a saint).
myk said “MM, SJ, LP switching to Kishore ?. You’ve got to be kidding me lol.”
Reply – You are 100 % correct but some kk fan knows how to twist an argument. There is no point in debating further if they cant see the truth (or pretend to be blind) in day light.
Ashu,
The majority of MD’s and musicians consider Rafi to be the greatest. You can never compare Kishore to Rafi or for that matter any singer to Rafi, he’s miles ahead. The more one compares Kishore to Rafi, the more flaws one will find in their arguments, as can be seen here.
You are a KK fan, yet I don’t think you know what actually happened. KK himself mentioned he came to Bombay to be a singer. He only went into acting because he couldn’t make it as a singer. Do you think Kishore would “choose” to act if he had the chance to sing, which was his first love ?. He wasn’t considered a top singer in the 50’s and 60’s, only SDB gave him breaks, and other MD’s used him in his own films. Due to the Burmans backing (and Rafi going out of town) he got the chance to rise, or he was about to leave and go back home when Pancham stopped him. He proved his talent as a singer, and his singing career got a jolt, which is great.
However please don’t drag Rafi into the picture when highlighting the good points of Kishore, the more you do, the more you drown, because no singer can ever reach Rafi’s level. Everyone compares their favourite singer to Rafi, that should tell you something. Rafi is the benchmark, Kishore was great within his own range, but when compared to Rafi he doesn’t measure up (imo). I suggest you also listen to SPB and Yesudas of the South, two singers also more versatile than Kishore.
Anyways, I don’t want to take part in this debate because its not really a logical debate, and myths and lies are being proclaimed as facts. But I just thought I should get one more post in.
MM, SJ, LP switching to Kishore ?. You’ve got to be kidding me lol. Many arguments here are flawed as well, but I’m not going to get into that.
Only stating facts doston…here’s salil on rafi & kishore…
“There is no doubt that Kishore possessed an exceptional voice. But
voice alone is not everything. I have to say that if Kishore had
classical training he would have been a different Kishore. Not only by
popularity, but also by the yard stick of qualitative merit of singing
Kishore could have reached the place occupied by Rafi. However, if I
have to evaluate Kishore as a singer, it would probably be fair to say
that Kishore brought in a new style of singing – something close to the
pop style. In this style, there was no one close to him. I can say
that with confidence.”
http://bhadra.wordpress.com/2006/07/02/kishore-kumar-and-salil-chowdhury/
i’m not trying to sell this to anyone – take it as you wish. i don’t always believe a famous musician myself. although salil does appear to be objectively analyzing here. 🙂
Manish,
“Husn Bhi Udhas Hai” was great song.
It is always better to share our views on great songs sung by Rafi, Mukesh and Kishore.
🙂
Manish mere dost,
Finally u r talking like real music lover 🙂
You are right abt aradhana except
so you see, kishore could have certainly sang the bengali versions after rafi’s hindi version (as you suggested). however, it isn’t because sdb wasn’t happy with rafi’s excellent rendition. it is because rafi was out of the country on world tour. my sources are very reliable. mohammed rafi was a great human being!
My reply:
I agree with you except Rafi went on World tour. FYI Rafi did not go on World tour, He went on world tour in 77, from there he was interviewed by BBC (available on the net). If you see movie, RDB name was there as Ass. Music Director. So it was RDB choice to use Kishore, it doesn’t mean RDB/SDB wasn’t happy with Rafi;s rendition, but they might have thought Kishore would be better choice for remaining songs.
ashu, i did some research and found answers to my own question. i want to share them with you. i’m only here for the truth.
1. sdb composed all the tunes for aradhana (source manohari singh & bhupinder).
2. only rafi was to give male playback in the movie. after recording two songs, rafi went out on world tour and asked sdb to record the remaining songs in kishore’s voice (source: shakti samanta, vivid bharati).
3. sdb himself rehearsed the songs with kishore. afterwards, either sdb or rdb (don’t know who but doesn’t matter) recorded the songs with kishore who then finally got the recognition he deserved.
so you see, kishore could have certainly sang the bengali versions after rafi’s hindi version (as you suggested). however, it isn’t because sdb wasn’t happy with rafi’s excellent rendition. it is because rafi was out of the country on world tour. my sources are very reliable. mohammed rafi was a great human being!
i made this post only to discuss some interesting facts – the goal here is obviously not to participate further in the debate (in case some are wondering why the heck i’m talking about this).
Btw Sudip…another excellent post from you…thanks…I agree with your points….good read.
Btw…I only asked out of sheer curiosity…no substantive reasons.
This morning I was listening to Kishore’s “Husn Bhi Udas Hai” – FANTASTIC!
Ashu,
I’m no longer here to debate but just to learn facts. A question came up else where and I remembered your remark.
You wrote: “Do you know Bengali song recorded later to Hindi version?” [reference to Aradhana songs]
I can believe you – but can you please give me a SOURCE that indicates which were recorded first? I would like to refer to it myself. Thank you.
I never think of comparing Rafi with Sonu….I am big fan of Rafi too, in fact there are few songs which are closed to my heart, and it is always available with me on demand (in MP3 player). I always put Kishore, Rafi and Mukesh in different category..
I agreed to you “Tanhayee” is Rafi’s style song and he could have taken it to different height. But i must admit that Sonu sang it well, but can’t be compared with rafi.
Ashu:
You are correct about “falsetto” but you misunderstood me.
I have throughout my posts distinguished between “false voice” and “falsetto”. I think you misunderstood me in that you thought I equated the two.. “falsetto” is a specific category of “false voice”, employed at high pitch.
Also, a “false voice” is not necessarily bad. There are lot of Kishore songs which have false voice. Similarly there are Rafi songs like “Jawaniyan yeh mast” or “Khoya khoya chand” that have deliberate usages of false voices.
I only feel disappointed when singers use it to artificially sound melodious or stay in tune. Abhijeet uses it all the time. Sonu Nigam also does it at times. That is one of the reasons why Sonu’s songs do not touch the heart. Singers need to sing from their navel and sing full throated.
Have you thought the effect if Rafi had sung “Tanhaiyaan” in Dil Chahta Hai? It would have become a classic.
Sudip,
You are correct. Rafi was great in high pitch. I think all songs whihc he delivered at high pitch was outstanding. Kishore was great in low scale.
It doesn’t mean that Kishore has not delivered high pitch..There are many high pitch song in his true voice. Same for Rafi.
As per my understanding, false voice is valid only in case of high pitch song:
The term falsetto is most often used in the context of singing to refer to a vocal technique that enables the singer to sing notes beyond the vocal range of the normal or modal voice
“Dil ki baatein” mukhada was not in high pitch. That’s why i was not agreed to you. But, u were right that Kishore sang this song intentionally.
Manish and Ashu:
Let us get out of the “which music director chose which singer” discussion. Let us not talk statistics, but quality of music.
First, lets face it- in Hindi movies singers and actors are selected by producers. There are astute music directors like Naushad, Khayyam, etc, who would not budge from their position, but in majority of cases, producers (and the “Bhais” of Dubai) influence the decision. It is a reality that Kishore hit the industry like a wave in the early 70s. So producers bet their money on him. Kumar Sanu created a similar wave between 1989 and 1995..Call it craze, but there is no denying that part.
Second, we tend to infer a music director’s preference from the number of songs he has given to a singer. This line of argument is too simplistic and flawed. SD gave more songs to Kishore but Rafi was his favorite singer. Rafi was Hemant Kumar’s favorite singer (in fact he thought Rafi was #1 to #10) but he gave him a limited number of good songs. Raj Kapoor’s (not a music director though) favorite singer was Rafi but he got Mukesh to sing his songs. I also believe Rajesh Roshan held Kishore and Rafi in equal esteem. There was no way he could have used Rafi for Amitabh and some other cases, and hence the numerical inequality. Ashu, I am just citing Rafi examples because I know them. I am sure there are similar anecdotes on Kishore and Mukesh sides as well.
My 2 cents..
I will let others judge who was more preferred (Rafi or KK) among top notch MD’s in the period of (from 1947 til 1980). I think everyone knows the answer.. It was RAFI. No doubt about that. I shoulf not have even mention this as it is a known fact.
Sudip said “Rafi’s greatness was he sang high pitched songs in true voice (from the navel) without distorting the note. When others try to imitate Rafi they either shout ”
Reply.. very well said…. I agree 100% Rafi is miles ahead than rest in singing.
“If you say “dil ki baatein” is false voice, then there are many songs sung by many legends are false voice:”
-Yes. “Dil ki batein” has two voices. If one is true, the other has to be false.
But you are taking it in wrong spirit. I mentioned that this was deliberate and very well sung. Similarly Rafi has used false voices in some songs deliberately-“Jawaniyan yeh mast bin piye” is a very good example and he did it as well.
Rafi’s greatness was he sang high pitched songs in true voice (from the navel) without distorting the note. When others try to imitate Rafi they either shout (as Anandji pointed out) or they use false voice..In a SVOI episode I heard one kid sing “Dil ki jharoke mein” and he used his false notes at high pitch.
Vipul,
I have already replied to Manish on “why MDs preferred Rafi over KK before 68”.
I would not write same thing here. But i can;t stop myself writing following thing:
– It was same MDs (Madan Mohan, SJ, LP) who were very fond of Rafi during his golden time switched to Kishore after 69. Check SJ list aftre 69, Kishore sang many song (FYI, he was not acting). It was kishore’s talent whihc forced so called great MDs to work with him.
Why SJ did not prefer Rafi..
in “KAL AAj aur Kal”, “Chorni”, “Laal Pathar”, “Main Sunder Hoon”
RDB, SDB, KA, Rajesh Roshan, Sapan Jagmohan, Shayamal Mitra are not Kishore’s relative 🙂
Sudip,
It was delibrate attempt, and it is beauty. You are correct that Kishore sang this way intentionally..
But i disagree on false voice analysis.
If you say “dil ki baatein” is false voice, then there are many songs sung by many legends are false voice:
1. Nain Lad Jai Hai to manawa kasak hoye be kari
2. Aa aa jane ja, mer ae husn jawa
3. Pyaar hame kis mod pe le aaya hai
4. There is one Rafi song in “Shagird”
I must say, all above songs are sung intentionally. 🙂
BTW, the link to Bijli ki rani:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6dHIieHf0hQ
I think if you want to listen to a “false voice” and true voice” in the same song, songs involving yodelling are good examples. One Kishore song that has both voices (before Ashu jumps, Kishore sang this way intentionally and managed it very very well), is “Dil Ki batein” from Roop Tera Mastana.
——————–>FALSE VOICE
dil ki baate
dil hi jaane
aankhen chheden
sau afasaane
naazuk-naazuk
pyaare-pyaare
vaade hain
iraade hain
———————> TRUE VOICE STARTS
aa-aa mil ke daaman daaman se baandh len
aa-aa mil ke daaman daaman se baandh len
Sudip, Could you please post the link to “Bijli ki Rani” song as I want to understand the meaning of falstto with an example. Please let me know if initial start taken by kk in “Mere mehboob qyamat hogi” before he even sings the line mere mehboob is considered as falsetto. Just trying to understand about falsttto….
Manish, Did you get any reply back from any kk fan on why most of the MD’s perferred Rafi over kk? (or for that matter all other playback singers)? Your list had Naushad, Ravi, Madan mohan, Sardar Malik, OP on Rafi’s side and KK fan were left with Bappi (and by the way… Bappi is related to KK) … Dear you will never get any answer on that.
Only thing you will hear will be
1> hey… Rafi songs were poor in quality (it means all those MD’s are poor in quality too compared to Bappi!)
2> or they will say.. you know what KK was busy in acting! There is no source of proof for any such statement and then … wo kya kahete hai ” oolta chor kotwaal ko dante” …
“There is a song in “Fanna” sung by Shaan and Kailash kher “Chaand Sifarish”. Kailash sang “Subhan Allah”, and entire song sung by Shaan, and FYI both got nominated for that song (both won award..)”
Reply: Not always true dear…. Let me think…….Kumar Sanu won filmfare award in 1993 for Yeh kali kali ankhen and a porition of the song was sung by Anu Malik… You theory do not work…check it out dear…
The voice in Namak Halal is so different that it has to be other than KK. KK just cant sing fast paced sargam. 🙂
Here is the link again of Dev Anand’s coment on Rafi. It is very much there on eternalRafi website… Please look at point 3 on that page.
http://www.eternalrafi.com/home/index.php/Media-Talks/2007-A-Rafi-Year.html#comment2019
Manish mere dost,
U wrote:
ashu – all i achieved with your discussions was hearing your 3 remarks that would make an objective person question your logic. it was entertaining too.
so stop this rather one sided discussion and go ahead with listening to and enjoying both singers – we can’t live without both.
My reply:
I am fond of all singers, and i know indian music can’t exist wothout Kishore, Rafi, Mukesh, Lata, Asha, Manna and many others. My views are not one side friend. I always replied to ur (rafians) fabricated view.
My dear friend abey john,
Rafians are known for fabricating stories against Kishore, but they don’t know that whenever they come up such nonsense thing, they get badly exposed.
ref 861
Vipul,
the link you provided does not work. interestingly, those two points were summaries and not quotes. i don’t believe those quotes. my guess is that they were fabricated hence you don’t have any primary source. it just says “source” times of india”. where is the toi article? no where. any person to authenticate it? no. just another rumor spread on the internet. no wonder the eternal rafi site got that link removed.
vipul,
FYI: May be this information will not be available in Youtube… 🙂
If you had seen 1982 filmfare award…Only kishore got nomination for “Pag ghungharoo bandh..” (of course he won).
There is a song in “Fanna” sung by Shaan and Kailash kher “Chaand Sifarish”. Kailash sang “Subhan Allah”, and entire song sung by Shaan, and FYI both got nominated for that song (both won award..)
My guess, if somebody else would have sung that fast Sargam, he would have got nomination.
Vipul,
Good. I don’t know abt kitchen and bathroom. But i must say I would be happy if his (Rafi) photo was in the bathroom (rest room) or kitchen:)Just kidding yaar 🙂
Can you send me reliable link or source where it mentioned that “FAST” sargam was sang by not kishore?
Boss, i can’t accept anything from you, because u r comletely depend on junk Youtube.
There was another character in the movie “Pyarelal” who sang fast sargam, not Amitabh. Amitabh sang ” sa sa….ni sha sha…” and rest pyarelal.
Vipul:
Kishore had a picture of Rafi in his house.
But when Ashu visited his house, Kishore was so scared about his dislike for Rafi that he hid it under his bed 🙂
It is an Indian tradition after all, to to treat guests with what they prefer.
sudip: i learned a lot from the points you raised and the songs you mentioned. do post once in a while at these forums.
as for now – save your precious time and don’t entertain these recently raised trivial, pointless matters. i certainly won’t – i will exit for now and check back in a month.
ashu – all i achieved with your discussions was hearing your 3 remarks that would make an objective person question your logic. it was entertaining too.
so stop this rather one sided discussion and go ahead with listening to and enjoying both singers – we can’t live without both.
btw…my kk biography just came in the mail – can’t wait for my other books to arrive 🙂
Thanks Sudip for your reply. No one could match Rafi’s high pitch singing, and it was one of his great strengths. If you listen to Pancham’s version of “Pyar Hai Ik Nishan” in Bengali, its nice, but Rafi takes the Hindi version to greater heights.
I’d rather not comment on Ashu’s posts, as I feel they are purely subjective and not based on fact. In my opinion, whatever he has claimed is not true (both of Rafi and Kishore). I don’t see how anyone can compare Kishore or any singer to Rafi, when Rafi is miles ahead of the rest.
Ashu:
“Sudip, you agreed with Asha’s coment on “Bijli ki rani”, then why u guys are not agreed with her”
Mere dost:
-That “Bijli ki rani” is a song sung in falsetto is a FACT (because falsetto has a hard definition)
-That Rafi lost to her in “Aaja aaja” is an OPINION
As far as Asha is concerned, she lost credibility and respect for me, the day she started denying OP’s contribution. Let her recognize OP Nayyar first. Rafi comes much later…
Ashu:
“Sudip, you agreed with Asha’s coment on “Bijli ki rani”, then why u guys are not agreed with her”
mere dost:
-That “Bijli ki rani” is a song sung in falsetto is a FACT
-That Rafi lost to her in “Aaja aaja” is an OPINION
As far as Asha is concerned, she lost credibility and respect for me, the day she started denying OP’s contribution. Let her recognize OP Nayyar first. Rafi comes much later…
Dev Anand’s comment on Rafi and kk…
Veteran actor Dev Anand came up with two demands during this birthday of Rafi sahab.
In a press conference he said (Source Times of India)
1. Rafi sahab shud be awarded Bharat Ratna immidiately and govt shud preserve his works before it is too late.
2. When I compare songs sung for me by Kishore and Rafi sahab, I realize that Rafi sahab was far ahead.
link –
http://www.eternalrafi.com/home/index.php/Media-Talks/2007-A-Rafi-
Year.html#comment2019
I liked the word “far ahead”
If any kk fan has any objection, they can contact TOI or eternalrafi website rather than arguing with me.
I would lov to mention my fav. Dev Anaand songs … (not in any order)
Rafi –
Abhi na jao chhod kar
Din dhal jaye
Kya se kya ho gaya
Too kanha yeh bata
Cheeda mere dil ne taran tere
Khoya khoya chand
Apni to har aah ek toofan
Dil ka bhanvar kare pukar
Ankho hi ankho main ishara
Kabhi khud pe kabhi halat
Kabhi na kabhi kanhi na kanhi koi na koi to
Dhire dhire chal
Accha ji main hari
main Zindgi ka saath
Diwana masatan hua dil
Aaja panchhi akela hai
kk –
Pholon ke rang se
Dil aaj shayar
palbhar ke liye koi
Pholon ka taron ka
O nigahe mastana
Thanks Sudip, I could easily hear the difference in the voice in NamakHalal, so just querying.
Here one KK fan initally gave the wrong information that it was sung by KK but later admitted that ..(it could be a different voice). May be that classical SARGAM was too difficult for KK, so given to someone else…(may be there was another reason… ) 🙂
so it could be possible that Rafi’s photo (Though I do not care) could be in KK’s house. Did he check bedroom, kitchen ,bathroom ? It could be anywhere… just kidding yaar… 🙂 and by the way, how does it matter?
Manish mere dost,
Isi liye baar baar kahta hu…Few true Rafians are very good in “KHAYALi PULAO”
Sudip,
I hope you have heard “Yaad Na jaaye” many many time. Eveni heard it many time, and it is my personal fav. I found one thing, I would request you to listen this song again, especially word line “YAAD” and “JAAYE”.
I thik Rafi sang this word 5 to 6 time in entire song, and many times his voice was like “kharkar”, especially in these 2 words. Waiting for ur comments.
Sudip,
I am lone surviver :). Joke of the day.
Here is reply in my honor 🙂
hum se na jeeta koi, hum sa na hoga koi
rang zamane aaye hai, Kishore Deewane aaye hai..
I already replied to ur blog, but i could not see here. I think it is blocked by Admin:
My comment in bold:
1. You have not commented on Kishore’s effects on Bengali songs (the links I sent)
I never visit to Youtube, because i have most of the collection of Kishore. I am in process of collecting songs sung by Kishore in his career. But i will visit to this link whenever i get some time.
2. Why you think Aaj Mausam Bada was false? (which line, which swar)
First line itself…
3. Swarlipi of Chingari (you already missed the deadline) to prove you know classical music
I will answer in term of asking you question. Will you accept Kishore is greatest if i answer ur qiestion 🙂
4. Rafi’s skillful toning down of “Aa ja” in Aa mere humjoli aa as a common ploy to misguide seekers in “hide and seek”
This is really funny.Rafi sang ” Aaajaaaaaa” many time in the song, and one time his voice had feminine effect.
Here is answer to ur funny logic. Let’s assume, you and I are playing “Hide and see”. It means we know each other. Why should I misguide by changing my voice? You can misguide player by shouting(singing) from different side, not by changing voice
5. Comment on the article http://www.mohdrafi.com/meri-awaaz-suno/true-voice-mohd-rafi.html
I stopped visiting this site last year, because i found many nonsense comments.
Sudip, you agreed with Asha’s coment on “Bijli ki rani”, then why u guys are not agreed with her, when she said Rafi lost to her and Nasir paid 100rs. to RDB for the bet which he lost to RDB (With reference to “aa ja aa ja main hu pyaar tera from Teesari Manzil).
Vipul, Even i felt that there was voice change aftre Sargam. I have not heard or seen any comments from Bappi, Prakash Mehra or Kishore himself abt this. Let’s assume for 1 min, somebody else sang that line, not Kishore. What do you want to convey from this?
If you are thinking singing saragam with speed of 150km/hr is classical, then i am sorry. Do you rememebr song from Junglee?
“Yahoooooo…Chahe koi mujhe junglee kahe”. “Yahooooooo” heart of this song was sung by PRAYAAG RAJ, not Rafi….
Sudip,
I would like to clear one point. I always feel that “falsetto” is an art. There is nothing wrong with it.
Kishore Kumar’s voice only suited to Super Star Rajesh Khanna
Sudip,
I have not seen Bengali link:
First of all, i hardly visit to youtube, because i have most of the collection of Kishore, Rafi and Mukesh with me.
Six year ago, i decided to collect all songs of kishore…I am still in the process of doing so.
My reply enclosed as BOLD:
You have not commented on Kishore’s effects on Bengali songs (the links I sent)
I never visited that link, but i will visit and send u reply whenever i get time..
2. Why you think Aaj Mausam Bada was false? (which line, which swar)
I feel, first line itself was false singing.
3. Swarlipi of Chingari (you already missed the deadline) to prove you know classical music
I think i missed ur last blog where u asked me to answer this. Sorry for it..
Before answering i would like to question.
…Will you accept Kishore is greatest if i answer it? I think we derail from main topic.
4. Rafi’s skillful toning down of “Aa ja” in Aa mere humjoli aa as a common ploy to misguide seekers in “hide and seek”
It is not at all true..mere dost..Rafi sang “Aaajjaaaaaaaa” many times in the songs, but his voice sound faminine only at one place in the song.
Come to logic, Lets say, i and u are playing “Hide and seek”. We both know who are playing this game, then what is point in misguiding other in form of changing voice:)
You can misguide by shouting other end, or ask somebody else to shout on behalf of you from other corner 🙂
5. Comment on the article http://www.mohdrafi.com/meri-awaaz-suno/true-voice-mohd-rafi.html
My dear friend, I don’t visit this site..I stopped visiting this site last year due to all bias comments. Instead of enjoying Rafi and his songs, people start comparing him with other outstanding siinger.
Hi Vipul,
Even i feel, there is a different vocal after Sargam in “Namak Halal”.
I never heard Bappi Lahiri, prakash Mehra or even Kishore saying this anywhere, or never read from reliable sources.
But let’s assume…that somebody sang that sargam not Kishore..
My question:
1. Is it classical based SARGAM?
Classical song means singing some sargam with speed of 150km/hr?
If is it true, then pls. listen following songs:
1. Paayal wali dekhana
2. Jaadu daal gaye re
3. Priye prran swari…
Here is example where somebody else sang along with Rafi…
Hope u remember..Junglee song
….Chahe koi mujhe junglee Kahe
—–” Yahooooooooo ” was sang by PRAYAG RAAJ, not Rafi
Ashu: not a big deal but just for fun I’ll address your remark about Rafi’s photograph in Kishore’s house. Who is to say that he did have it and it got removed later on? Especially after Rafi’s death – remember that whereas Lata & company quickly forgot about Rafi, Kishore gave tributes to his live concerts as early as 1980-1981 and as late as just a few months before his death. That is certainly possible. Remember that Kishore’s place isn’t kept nearly the way it was – I’m sure people have meddled with it and it is falling apart.
I just saw this post by myk:
“Btw, Sudip, do you still hold the view that “Pyar hai ik nishan qadmon ka” (Mukti), and “Zamane ne mare jawan kaise kaise” (Baharon Ke Sapne) would make it into RD’s Top 5 ?.”
-Definitely “Zamane ne marey”..In “Pyar hai ik nishan qadmon ka” I think Rafi went slightly higher in scale for my comfort, though I think he managed it very well (As always). Bhupinder sang the a similar Bhairavi tune in a Bengali movie under Bappi Lahiri’s baton and I prefer the lower scale chosen by Bhupinder. My only problem with Rafi was that MDs used to make him sing in higher scales which used to sound good when you see it on screen because you have the context, but off screen it may sound bit high.
I do not want to compare songs individually. But I prefer “Zamane ne marey” to “Zindagi ke safar mein guzar jatey hain” anyday as a sad song. I always maintained that Kishore’s sad songs do not suit my taste. Apart from the flamboyance there is a certain “dadagiri” (this term was used by Sudesh Bhosle for one of the KFK contestants because he overdid it) in Kishore’s voice that takes the helplessness and apathy out of sad songs. But that is entirely a personal taste.
Vipul,
That part was sung by Dilshad Khan (Parveen Sultana’s husband)
here are some gorgeous numbers by kishore from his golden phase::
1.ye kya hua
2.kuch to log kahnge
3.chanda o chanda
4.raat kali ek khwab mein aayi
5.o mere dil ke chain
all these numbers were greatly sung by kk, he is much much better than any of the playback singer from now a days, he was the great artist…
but here is a song from my most fav from his golden phase which i think can eaisly equate itself wd d combined effect of abov mentioned five solos
din dhal jaaye