An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980. […]
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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My previous post proves that Rafi was more preferred than KK from 1946 till 1951. Thus Rafi was more popular or preferrred till 1971 from 1946. (26 years)
kk was more preferred than Rafi from 1972 to 1976. (5 years) .. I request everyone to put facts (numbers) so that I can enhance my knowlede.
KK as singer from 1946 till 1951
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Baazi (1951) (Released)
Naujawan (1951) (Released)
Adaa (1951) (Released)
Hamari Shaan (1951) (Released)
Andolan (1951) (Released)
Bahar (1951) (Released)
Ek Nazar (1951) (Released)
Mashaal (1950) (Released)
Rim Jhim (1949) (Released)
Ziddi (1948) (Released)
Shikari (1946) (Released)
Rafi as singer from 1946 to 1951
————————————-
Khazana (1951) (Released)
Bikhare Moti (1951) (Released)
Saiyan (1951) (Released)
Awara (1951) (Released)
Naujawan (1951) (Released)
Sanam (1951) (Released)
Maya Machhindar (1951) (Released)
Jadu (1951) (Released)
Nakhre (1951) (Released)
Saggai (1951) (Released)
Deedar (1951) (Released)
Daman (1951) (Released)
Afsana (1951) (Released)
Sabz Baag (1951) (Released)
Johari (1951) (Released)
Hulchal (1951) (Released)
Hamari Shaan (1951) (Released)
Ek Nazar (1951) (Released)
Shagun (1951) (Released)
Lachak (1951) (Released)
Nazneen (1951) (Released)
Mukhda (1951) (Released)
Nagina (1951) (Released)
Ustad Pedro (1951) (Released)
Stage (1951) (Released)
Kali Ghata (1951) (Released)
Sarkar (1951) (Released)
Rajput (1951) (Released)
Pardes (1950) (Released)
Nirala (1950) (Released)
Bawre Nain (1950) (Released)
Dastan (1950) (Released)
Aankhen (1950) (Released)
Sangram (1950) (Released)
Barsaat (1949) (Released)
Dulari (1949) (Released)
Paras (1949) (Released)
Andaz (1949) (Released)
Naach (1949) (Released)
Roop Lekha (1949) (Released)
Chandni Raat (1949) (Released)
Patanga (1949) (Released)
Dillagi (1949) (Released)
Badi Behan (1949) (Released)
Mela (1948) (Released)
Shaheed (1948) (Released)
Ghar Ki Izzat (1948) (Released)
Pyar Ki Jeet (1948) (Released)
Actress (1948) (Released)
Nadiya Ke Paar (1948) (Released)
Jugnu (1947) (Released)
Shahjehan (1946) (Released)
Anmol Ghadi (1946
#
Kishore was great and at his true best in soft and sad songs.
one can’t imagine Yeh JEEVAN HAI, KAB tak andhere( rajesh roshan compsition, the song is carried by simply voice there was liitlebackground music, no singer has done it!), Aanewala pal, Zindagi ka safar . chhokar mere manko kiya . moreover if you are not carried away from the complex of classical singing you will notice that hume tumse pyar kitana by kishore is more effective than parveen sultana sheerely by emotions put in the song.
It is amyth that rafi made comeback as top in eighties. his songs were more in 1980 in binaca but that is because of Amitkumar shared some numbers of kishore courtosy RDB.
Moreover the best songs in 1977 to 1980 were composed by rajesh roshan , rdb and their best compositions ( Rimzim gire sawan ) are sung by kishore and always this was the case .Occassionally RDB used Rafi for the khoya khoyaa chand versions!. in abdulla best song was not Maine pucha chandse but Ae khuda her faisala tera muze manjjor hai a sad song sung by kishore.
Kishore as regarded as top due to his vice quality which reflevted in songs like KABtak andhere Manko and JEEvanse na har jeenawale imosiible to ever imagine in any other voce.
there were some qualities of Lata and asha in kishore’s voce and exactly complimentary copies from latrta and asha reflected in rafi’s voice.RDB realized it late.
#
928
vitthal Says:
Dear Vipul..
I am trying to enhance ur knowlege for last 3-4 months, but i could not see any progress. Every blog show ur immaturity regarding hindi music…especially toward ur fav. (i am not personal here….don’t misunderstood me).
Here, u wrote:
1947 – 1971 – (25 years) Rafi on Top
1972 -1976 (5 years) . kk on top
1977 – 1980 – Rafi bounced back and myk says that Rafi was more preferred. However I will say both were on top.
So Rafi ruled for 25 years alone and kk for 5.
my reply:
Please enhance ur knowlege…Rafi got his top position in 1952 from Baiju Bawra, and he wasnever top because Talat, Mukesh was another preferred singer. Yes, but he completely dominated hindi music industry till 1967. He started loosing his top position after that, 70 he completely songs though he sang more no. of songs than Kishore.
he was never on top or equal to Kishore from 77-80. Many time i wrote abt these period. Credit goes to LP and RDB who asked him to sing song for Amar Akbar Anthony” and “Hum kisi se kam nahi” due to multi-starrer. People started talking abt rafi again because he got national award/Film fare award for HKSKN and filmfare nomination for AAA…But history says that he never regain his postion after 69
Few paragraph from recognized site abt Rafi:
——————————————————————–
Between 1950 and 1970, Rafi was the most sought after singer in Bollywood, some say, at the expense of the careers of contemporaries like Manna Dey, Talat Mahmood, and Hemant Kumar.
——————————————————————–
Few movie, Rafi landed his voice aftre 76…
—————————————————————–
like Amar Akbar Anthony (1977), Sargam (1979) and Karz (1980). The qawwali Pardah Hai Pardah from Amar Akbar Anthony (1977) was a superhit. Rafi gave many other hit songs in late 1970s and early 80s, notably for the films Laila Majnu (1976), Apnapan (1978), Qurbani, Dostana (1980) The Burning Train (1980) Naseeb (1981) Abdullah (1980) Shaan (1980) and Asha (1980)
—————————————————————-
Rafi never dominated Kishore during 77-80….Sargam, Laila Majnu are only 2 movies i remember where he sang majority of songs
Dear Waz,
Ur observation is 100% right…I have posted my thought on same song from “ABHIMAAN” few month back, and i am sure Rafians will not agree to it…Who cares…
But i would like to correct u..”Loote koi man ka nagar” was sung by Manhar, not Mukesh..Actually this song was supposed to sing by Mukesh, but due to his unavailability it went to Manhar….
dear myk,
U wrote:
Kishore was a great actor, but he could not compete with the big-time heroes
My reply:
He was great comic actor, and i am sure he will stand no.1 or 2 in comic role…There was survey on comic role on M TV 3 year ago…Kishore and Mehmood stood first.
and ha…u wrote that SDB said Kishore that he can’t be Rafi…U r right KK could not be Rafi…If he had followed rafi then he might have lost like Mahendra kapoor, Mukesh , Manna dey…..He dethroned Rafi, because he was Kishore not Rafi :)….
I already posted RDb interview link where he said How rafi went wrong with “AA JA main hu pyaar Tera”. He said Kishore was best.
Not only he, Lata(People refer her sangeet ki Saraswati), Asha said numerous times that Kishore was their best.. Of course it was their own choice.
Reason i gave more importance to them, because they spend almost 40 yrs singing with each other, so they know who is really best…
Waz:
I have been refraining from the argument on why and how Kishore eclipsed Rafi in the early 70s. There are several theories floating around-right from Rafi going to Haj to RDB unfairly favoring Kishore and giving him a break “using” Sharmila Tagore’s sex appeal in Roop Tera Mastana. Personally I am not a big believer in any of these theories. Fact is, Kishore was singing very well, he was a fresh, new voice, let us accept that.
I also accept the fact that Kishore had a great voice. Though attributes like sexiness, naughtiness, etc are very subjective opinions(one can say Talat was “sexy”), let us honor that Kishore can sound golden to a lot of people.
But extending these attributes to claim he was the “greatest male singer ever” is preposterous. For whatever reason, Rafi’s “active” singing career was longer than Kishore and hence he ended up delivering more gems. For a moment imagine the songs of Kishore did not happen at all.. It will no doubt be a big dent. But if you take off songs of Rafi from the history, Hindi film music would be possibly be in coma. The way I look at “greatest singer” is the singer with greatest contribution.
There are some subtle qualities in Rafi that make him unique. These have been dealt with in this forum number of times, but I’ll still repeat. He had the unique ability to sound different in different songs. The Rafi of “Aaye bahaar banke” (high pitch pathos) is 180 degrees different from the Rafi of “Tumse kahoon ek baat” (lowest pitch delirium). Rafi also had the unique ability to convey mixed feelings in a song. Take “Meri dushman tu mere” (Aaye din bahaar ke). It is a sad song but with a lot of caustic hatred and sarcasm towards the betrayer mixed into it. At the same time the hero wanted her lover back-that’s why he is singing. It is almost impossible to convey 3 feelings in one song. Rafi manages to do that, making the song a gem.
Kishore had the unique ability to simplify a song and popularize it. One can argue that this is what made him the greatest. There are tons of Rafi songs which were qualitatively great, not popular. A person of my taste would argue that this very “elitism” makes Rafi the greatest because he did not damage the sanctity of songs and gave songs their rightful place..Take two songs of the same mood-“Chingari koi bhadke” and “Hum bekhudi mein”. Chingari is no doubt more popular. It is played in pandals, weddings, parties, birthdays, picnic…everywhere..Kishore’s camp would argue that this was Kishore’da’s greatness. Rafi’s side of the camp would argue that Rafi did the right treatment to Hum bekhudi mein and hence made sure the song does not get diluted from its position of sublimity. Similarly, take “Aa chalke tujhe” (Door gagan ki chhayon mein) versus “Mujhe le chalo” (Sharabi). Both the songs involve a dreamer’s reflection of the land of love. Kishore’s number is more popular; even to my ears. But is it the better number? No..”Mujhe le chalo” is any day a qualitatively better number to me..It brings tears to any sensitive soul.
Rafi’s treatment to each song was unique. Each Rafi song has its distinct place in history. “Main jat yamla” and “Badan pe sitare” are in their rightful positions. So are “kahin ek masoom, nazuk si ladki” and “Aaye na balam”..There is no blending of genres. Lack of this is what I considered Kishore’s singularity of approach.
People may not agree with my taste, nor do they have to.. But that was my 2 cents.
Myk,
Do you honestly think that if the Aradhana songs were rendered in Rafi’s usual, voice for every other actor, routine voice – that Rajesh Khanna would stand out like he did? I don’t. If it wasn’t for Kishore, Rajesh Khanna would be no different than the other actors who synced to Rafi.
Why is it that Rafi’s heroes were all #2s in the 70s? Dharmendra and Jeetendra were no where NEAR Rajesh Khanna. Dharmendra foolishly opted for Rafi and that is why he remained #2 to Rajesh Khanna. Kishore Kumar made the difference! Rajesh Khanna even credited all his success to Kishore! Of course, this kind tribute isn’t to deny that RK had impact for Kishore as well. And I’m not saying that singing for the #1 hero makes you the best. However, being the key ingredient (even in a joint effort) to making one star stand out tall from the rest – shows the impact and magic of Kishore Kumar.
mohd rafi arguably the greatest singer of all time..i could have written inarguably if the industry hadn’t seen the magic and sheer class of kishore da..i have been observing the comments.its heart rending to see how people here took all the credit of kishore’s success and attributed it to Rafi’s break from singing.it practically never happenend..
people have been saying that kishore was not a hit pre aradhna.not singing for top notch stars like shammi, raj kapoor and rajendra kumar doesn’t mean that he was job less..he had his share of success though not as huge as rafi’s at that time..
but wat about songs:
1. piya piya piya with asha
2. 1 larki bheegi bhaagi si
3. hum the wo the aur samaa rangeen
4. ye dard bhara afsana
5. aankhon ankhon mien with asha
6. mere pyaase mann ki bahaar with asha
7. chotti si ye dunia
8. ajnabi tum jaane pehchaane
9. nakhre wali
10. ye raatien ye mausam
11. gaata rahe mera dil
12. kehna hai aj
13. mere saamne wali
14. eena meena deeka
15. zarurat hai zarurat
to name the few.
as far as SDP issue goes. let me answer this question with an evidence that who is a greater singer and believe me its no joke. have u guys seen the 1973 hit abhimaan starring amitabh and jaya bachchan. in that film they have played husband and wife. in that kishore has sung two songs meet na mila re mann ka before their wedding in the movie and tere mere milan ki ye rena (a gr8 song indeed) when jaya had left singing and comes back for a stage performance. but on their wedding function the outstanding song teri bindiya re sung by rafi n lata comes after which david says: “jaya amit se acha gaati hai” so that song was sung by rafi not kishore because director had to show a female singer is better than a male one and lata can never over haul kishore. even in loote koi mann ka nagar mukesh’s voice is used not kishore’s.
because they had to show a better female voice and when they had to show a better male voice then they pitted lata’s voice against kishore’s. do you still call the director, music director and lyricist an idiot.
giving due respect to rafi. he is a gr8 singer but kishore was a sheer talent. he had resonance, echo, passion, enthusiasm, sexiness,naughtiness, vigour, boldness and charm in his voice which nobody had and nobody will have.
myk, It will be still nice to get the numbers from 1972 to 1980 (if you have) for Rafi and kk. (just for my knowledge).. Thanks….
Opinion is one thing and fact is another thing. Lata could perfer kk and Maana could prefer Rafi. It is their opinion.
Fact is Rafi was ruling Hindi music for longer time than kk.
1947 – 1971 – (25 years) Rafi on Top
1972 -1976 (5 years) . kk on top
1977 – 1980 – Rafi bounced back and myk says that Rafi was more preferred. However I will say both were on top.
So Rafi ruled for 25 years alone and kk for 5.
That gives the answer. I guess it is simple math rite Ashu?
Dear Ashu,
You wrote:
“Does it has any relation with Kishore’s greatness? He was the only singer who manage to dethrone Rafi. He was one of the best actor during those year, and if you check his songs, all are hits and melodious picturised on Dev Anand and himself.”
My response is YES it does IF you want to compare Kishore to Rafi in terms of singing. If you don’t, then it doesn’t make a difference. I don’t understand the need for a comparison. It’s not fair on any grounds, so why compare ?. It’s great when one is talking about Kishore’s traits as a singer, but when comparing him to Rafi comes into the picture, is where things go wrong. Also, if you ask the majority of singers, MD’s, musicians who the greatest is, the answer will be Rafi, its a fact, nothing can alter that. There was a recent Outlook Poll, which had all celebrity MD’s, musicians, singers, lyricists etc. on the panel, and it was voted that Rafi and Lata were the best singers of all time. Going by a few articles of Lata saying she likes KK the most doesn’t change the fact that Lata thinks Rafi is the best. She’s said it many a times, and there’s always going to be articles here and there mentioning something else. Same applies to articles where other celebs mention something else too. ALSO, there are times when journalists add their own influences into their articles too. Agreed everyone has their favourites, but it can’t alter the fact that Rafi is the greatest and that the majority think so as well.
Kishore was a great actor, but he could not compete with the big-time heroes of the day. He was a genre actor, great in his particular genre, which was mostly comedy. Yes his songs were hits filmed on himself, as well as on Dev, YET he could not make it big as a singer despite those hits. I don’t think KK would have chosen acting over singing when singing was his first love and when he came to the industry to be a singer. He had to wait a long time, and he never dethroned Rafi in any way possible. Even after Aradhana, I don’t think you can call that dethroning by any means. If you want to unfairly compare him to Rafi, why leave out the period where he could not compete against him ?. When Aradhana came around, Rafi left the country or SDB would never have given those songs to KK. SDB was in a dillema, his singer of first choice Rafi was out of town after recording two duets with him for Aradhana, and Shakti Samantha wanted the songs to be recorded right away. It so happened that KK’s voice clicked on RK and KK became popular from that point onwards. Rafi was King, there was never any question of dethroning him, its just that KK’s singing career got a boost and that was great for Kishore. Even in the peak KK period, 1972-76, there is no question of dethroning Rafi in any way. KK’s wave came and went, it wasn’t a stronghold, like Rafi had for all those years on the music scene. Rafi cut down on his assignments which is why KK was able to enjoy his peak period, had that not happened, I’m sure history would have been written a different way. What happened from 1977-1980, everyone knows. This is not to say KK’s talent didn’t take him far, it certainly did, and he was a talented singer, but you can’t compare him or any singer to Rafi, its impossible.
How about SDB switching over to Rafi for Dev when KK was available ?. When KK could not break in as a singer, he resorted to acting, and said he would only sing for Dev Anand outside of himself. Yet SDB never went to KK for any songs between 1958-1964 filmed on Dev, until KK had to ask SDB for some songs of Teen Devian which is how he got those 4 songs in that film. Even SDB told Kishore, that he could never be a Rafi, this coming from his own mentor was indeed the truth. Kishore himself accepted Rafi as the greatest, and even RDB knew that as well, so why compare KK to Rafi at all ?. Leave aside comparing, its not hard to see and realize that Rafi is miles ahead of anyone when it comes to singing.
KK was a great singer within his own range, but its foolish to compare him to Rafi who’s miles, head and shoulders above all. Why do fans of every singer compare their idol to Rafi ?. That shows Rafi is the best, but please don’t compare apples and oranges.
This is the first time I’m coming across a KK fan who likes KK’s voice better under RR than RDB. RR was able to extract something different from KK’s voice that RDB could not, and he also brought out the softer side of KK’s voice the best too.
Just to add on RR’s use of Rafi’s and Kishore’s vocals. Rafi also playbacked for Jeetendra in Swarg Narak as well as Priyatama. Yes, RR used Rafi for multi-starrers too, but he also used him for many other situations as well.
Ashu, I am curious to know, what are your views on Rajesh Roshan the music director, and how do you rate him compared to RDB ?.
KK is good, no questions. But does he deserve to be compared with Rafisahab in terms of vocal quality/ clarity/ range/modulation, sheer range of moods and expressions et al? Personally speaking, much of KK’s success can be attributed to the fact that he was different from others (esp. Rafi sahab) and people were looking for something different in the early ’70s (as is apparent from the change of guards every where in Hindi filmdom). It wouldn’t be incorrect to conclude that KK was because of Rafisahab but Rafisahab was because of his own greatness.
dear myk,
u were absolutely right that RR composed best Kishore-Rafi duets.
I like Kishore vocal under RR better than RDB.
especially..
– YAADON ME WO SPANO ME HAI
– THODA HAI THODE KI
– NAZRANA BHEJA KISI NE PYAAR KA
– O YAARA, Tu PYAARO SE HAI PYAARA.
U asked:
In my last post I mentioned where was KK “20 years back” ?. 20 is just a number, I could have written 20 + or 30 + years, the point is where was KK “all those years” back. Also, those years were a huge number of years, it wasn’t little, KK had to wait a very long time for a break,
my reply:
Does it has any relation with Kishore’s greatness? He was the only singer who manage to dethrone Rafi. He was one of the best actor during those year, and if you check his songs, all are hits and melodious picturised on Dev Anand and himself….
I hope i answer ur question:
Sudip,..
Continuation to last blog………..
U wrote, in RR case, it is actor driven.
Can you answer following question?
1. Why RR selected “KISHORE” for Mehmood in KUNWARA BAAP
2. If his choice was actor driven, then why rafi sang for AMitabh in “MR Natwarlal” – “OONCHI OONCHI BAATON SE” under RR composition
3. Why RR always went to Rafi when there is multi-statrrer cast
like “AAP KE DEEANE”, “SWAYAMVAR”
4. Why kishore sang for “Jeetendra” in “SWARG NARAK”, “PRIYATAMA” etc.
Again, above points just to highlight ur baseless observation.
In my last post I mentioned where was KK “20 years back” ?. 20 is just a number, I could have written 20 + or 30 + years, the point is where was KK “all those years” back. Also, those years were a huge number of years, it wasn’t little, KK had to wait a very long time for a break, and if he was as talented as Rafi, he should have gotten that break much earlier.
Rajesh Roshan was an MD who brought the best out of Rafi and Kishore either together or individually. In my view, he has composed the best Rafi-KK duets. I also feel he was KK’s best MD from 1975 onwards, and one of Rafi’s best latter-day MD’s as well.
sudip,
i can just laugh on ur comments.
Can u send me reliable source link or anything where Raj Kapoor said “Rafi was his fav., and not mukesh”?
Waiting for reply….
In case of Rajesh Roshan, If i go with ur word then producer(Mehmood) might have asked RR to compose song “Saj rahi gaali meri maaa” with Rafi’s vocal, same would be true in case of “Bishan chacha” from YAARANA. 🙂
My dear friend, e sab khayali pulao hai….difficult to digest….
Another example:
Let’s take ..
1. Naushad, his fav. was Rafi. Most of his composition had Rafi;s voice..
2. RDB, his fav. was Kishore. Most of his composition had Kishore’s voice
3. Madan Mohan, O P Nayar, Ravi: true in case of Rafi
4. Khayyam: Mukesh is his fav, so most of his composition had mukesh’s voice
so my dear friend, on-screen loyalty should reflect a person’s choice. It is true in most of the cases except few split personalities 🙂
You still did not reply my question. As far as my knowledge, till 80s MDs had always upper hand on producer or director unlike today.
best example are
– SDB asked Kishore to sing for Dilip Kumar, not Rafi in SAGINA.
– SDB asked kishore to sing for Rajkapoor, not Mukesh
– LP asked Kishore to sing one song from AABA
– LP asked Mukesh to sing all songs from “MILAN” and “DHARATI KAHE PUKAR KE”, not rafi
I hope all above example of more than enough to ur baseless observation….
Note: Everyone has their own fav., it doesn’t mean he is best….
– Kavita says, Manna dey is her fav.
– Alka says, Kishore is her fav.
– Lata says, Kishore, she like most
– Asha says, Kishore, she like most
– Sonu nigam says, Rafi, he like most
– RDB says, Kishore is best
– Rahat fateh says, Nusrat is best
summary is, every indivisual has their own fav., best is always best like Kishore…People are making money by remixing his song, telecasting music episode on him, and producing movie on him. Is there any singer who got this kind of privilage.
Gani,
It doesn’t matter how many takes Rafi took to sing the “Suvarna Sundari” song, I doubt it was as high as you mentioned, because he was a master singer, and he couldn’t have taken that much takes, Ghantasala I think could have taken that much takes, as he wasn’t in the same league as Rafi. Rafi’s version of the “Suvarna Sundari” song is my view is better than the Telegu version by Ghantasala, and Rafi’s version of “Chal Ud Ja Re Panchi” is also better than the Ghantasala version. Even if Ghantasala sang his version of “Chal Ud Ja Re Panchi” at a higher pitch, it doesn’t prove anything, Rafi was still the better singer, and also had a much wider range than Ghantasala (i.e could sing at a much higher pitch than him).
I am still firm in my view that SPB and Yesudas are greater than Ghantasala. Ghantasala’s repetoire doesn’t have as much variety as the other two, and I have heard a lot of songs of southern singers. Rafi is head and shoulders above all singers. I don’t understand why Ghantasala or Kishore or any singer is compared to Rafi, its like comparing apples and oranges, Rafi is in his own league and class.
————–
Sudip, Thanks for the info about RR, its a fact that the majority consider Rafi the greatest. Some nitpicking of Pyarelal’s words, or other articles, or changing around of some words by KK fans won’t alter the truth. Pyarelal many a times has mentioned Rafi is the ultimate and so have the majority of musicians, MD’s etc. Kishore even considered Rafi to be the greatest as did Mukesh, Talat, Manna etc., and here KK fans are trying to prove their idol is one up, which they never will be able to prove because its not true and can never be true, so all their time and effort is going to waste.
It is wrong to say 90 % of RR’s songs were sung by Kishore. From 1974-1980, Rafi and KK were used pretty evenly by RR, there are many great and popular Rafi songs from RR films such as Inkaar, Aap Ke Deewane, Mr. Natwarlal, Kaala Patthar, Man Pasand, Jay Vijay, Ek Hi Raasta and so forth.
————–
Just to touch upon Rafi’s voice on Rajesh Khanna, many of the songs Rafi sang for RK before Aradhana were hits. Had Rafi sung those Aradhana songs they would have been super popular and big hits as well, and KK is lucky he got the chance to sing those songs. What does Raj P mean by RK would have become another Jeetendra if Rafi had sang those Aradhana songs ?. This is false, because Jeetu was a huge star, the fact is Rafi sang for everyone, all the big stars, including RK and AB, two actors associated with KK, and the reverse can’t be said about KK, he never sang for more than half of the Rafi stars. Had Rafi sang those Aradhana songs it would have been amazing and RK would have shot to fame, the way he did. Remember, around the time of Aradhana, we had Do Raaste, Aan Milo Sajna, Mehboob Ki Mehndi, The Train, Sacha Jhoota and films after all with Rafi on RK, which was part of his superstar wave, and which added to his superstar aura, so to say he would not have been as successful had Rafi sang those Aradhana songs for him is false, because his songs from Aradhana and other films at that time was a part of the RK superstar wave and charm, and added to RK’s superstar status. These KK and Rafi songs added big time to RK’s superstar status, besides his acting. If Rafi sang the whole Aradhana score, it would have been a killer score. KK in my view didn’t do enough justice to “Mere Sapno Ki Rani” and “Kora Kagaz Tha”, whereas with “Roop Tera Mastana”, he sang it well. Rafi’s two duets were excellent.
————–
I don’t understand this idea of KK being the only one to challenge or dethrone Rafi. No one challenged, or could challenge, or dethroned Rafi, in any way. Where was KK 20 years back ?. Oh, wait he was acting right ?. Wrong !. He wanted to sing, but no one was willing to give him a chance, so he chose to act and only sing for SDB. For a person who came to Mumbai to be a singer, and who’s first love was singing, do KK fans actually think he would choose acting over singing if he got the chance to sing ?. The logic is all messed up, the truth is he could not get a break, and had to wait until Rafi went out of town for Aradhana and SDB gave him those songs. If that’s what you call dethroning, Rafi out of the country, then may you find the right path. If he could have dethroned Rafi, he should have done it 20 years back, but he couldn’t, that’s what KK fans do not want to accept. KK became popular, it was a trend, there is no way he dethroned or was better than Rafi in any way. By 1970, Rafi and Lata were the benchmarks in singing, they had already proven they were the best, there was nothing left to prove, and KK surely could not reach those standards.
————–
Vipul,
We don’t need the Rafi and KK quantity lists from 1947-1980, KK is virtually no where in terms of quantity until the 70’s. From 72-76 he’s leading but not by a lot, and from 1977-1980 Rafi sang more than Kishore, the stats are there to prove it. Someone mentioned percentage of hits, in 1971 (besides all previous years) Rafi had more hits than KK amidst the so called KK wave, from 72-76 KK may have had more hits, because Rafi cut down on his singing himself, and not due to anything else, and YET Rafi had many hits during this time, even when he cut down on his singing. From 1977-1980, Rafi and KK had many hits, and come 1979-1981, KK is hardly found on the BGM, its Rafi everywhere, very little of KK, those who were around at that time and listened to the BGM and knew the trends will know, and yet KK fans mention their idol ruled the 70’s, how ignorant is that.
————–
Kishore was a great singer, but please don’t compare him to Rafi, this is where you’ll go very wrong. The more KK fans try and defend their case, the worse it gets.
ASHU WROTE:
“I have one question for you:
– Let’s say, you are a director, and you are accessible to any actor in this industry. Whom you like to direct?
Of course you like to go ahead with your fav.
For e.g. if i am director, i would like to make all my movie with Amitabh..
…another e.g.
1. Manmohan Desai tried to make all his movie with Amitabh
2. Yash Chopra direct movie for Amitabh and Shahrukh. It means his fav. is amitabh.
Same would be true in case of Rajesh ROshan. I wou
If he is so fond of Rafi then why Kishore sang his 90% songs..Any songs u remember of RR tune, you can find only Kishore. he also used Rafi in few composition:”
SO YOU ARE SAYING HE WAS DRUNK OR LYING WHEN HE SPOKE..IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT QUESTION WAS ASKED, THERE IS ONLY ONE INTERPRETATION OF “FAVOURITE SINGER”
I wrote about this earlier too. The assumption is too simplistic that if someone is my favorite singer I will give him/her majority of the songs.
1. First of all, Hindi film music lineups are decided mostly by producer (and the bhais behind him). I am not saying that happened in Rajesh Roshan-Kishore case, but lets face it. Kishore was commercially successful in the 70s. Producers would definitely put money on him-does not mean he was qualitatively best or anything.
2. We have seen enough examples where the on-screen loyalty did not reflect a person’s choice. Example:
-Rafi was Raj Kapoor’s favourite singer. After Rafi’s death Raj Kapoor stated “n the world of music, the uncrowned king of singing has left us”..
How many songs did Raj Kapoor give to the “uncrowned king”? Hardly anything, right?
-Mukesh was Kalyanji Anandji’s favourite singer. But Kishore sang 281 numbers with them, Rafi 182 and Mukesh 91! What does that say?
-Naushad’s favourite female singer was Noor Jehan and not Lata. What do the numbers say?
-Hemant Kumar’s favourite singer was Rafi. Why did he choose Kishore for “Woh shaam kuch..”?
There are no simple answers to these… In Rajesh Roshan’s case I guess it was primarily actor driven.
ref to p 970::
gani sahab,
yes indeed there is no comparison between one who is trained in hindustani classical and other who is in carnatic, as we all know how much these two branches of classical music differs, so its not fair to compare ghantasala and rafi on the basis of their classy songs, rafi was also very well trained in hindustani music, he had delivered many of the best classical songs of hfm…. my question to you is have you ever experienced any singer who could sing in so much genre in best possible way, i mean where is ghantasala in quawwalis and rock ‘n’ rolls where rafi delivered so well, rafi was perfect playback voice, infact the best playback voice….
iam a big fan of maestros like naushad,sdb,sj,mm who were the mentors and idols to the younger line generation of composers and shaped the careers of every great singer from rafi to lata to mukesh to kishore and all of them termed rafi as their favorite and best … kishore was also the big fan of the “rafi phenomenon” that is only why he paid the tribute to the rafi by singing “mann re tu kahe na” in one of his concerts, i never heard kishore paying tribute to any other singer(among his contemporaries),kishore also delivered one of the rafi’s song in filmfare awards function when he got award for thodi si bewafai, all these great maestros considerd rafi as best but kishore fans think they know more than these maestros …
regarding lata’s comment, i have with me her shradhanjali series where she mentioned kishore as “sampoorna kalakar(nothing more) ” which he was, she never said kishore is greatest singer in any of her tv or audio interview, lata was die hard sehgal fan and sehgal also appreciated rafi most among the male singers…
mr.ashu,
you said that kishore outshines lata in “tum aa gaye ho”, but i don’t think so, this song is perfect example of lata outshining kishore with her sweet voice … but kishore too sometimes outshines lata in very few of their duets, here is one of the such duets where i think kishore was better…
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1yXwA7MgFYM
and here is something for music lovers, superb song in the vocals of talat, music by great c ramchandra..
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pFe9UMI2-LU
Sudip.
Reply to ur blog on LP:
Here is few line from Pyarela’s interview:
Fav. singer:
————-
For Pyarelal, there is no better male singer than Mohammad Rafi. Kishore Kumar came a close second.
Note: Rafi and Lata helped LP for their first break, so they are hughly obeliged to them. But he never forget to mention CLOSE SECOND unlike others.
Abt Lata:
———–
We were a great admirer of her talent. Our only regret was Lataji could not sing in male voice!” he laughed.
WHat does bold line means? He means Lata is better than Kishore and Rafi 🙂
Note: Whom can we listen? Every indivisual has their own fav. like u and me.
Best thing to judge best is….
1. Who is still popular
2. Whose songs are more popular
Abt my last blog on Rajesh Roshan..
For god sake, don;t say all the songs sung by Rafi under Rajesh Roshan composition was toughest songs.
I would like to add one more song of Rafi under RR from movie “YAARANA”
“bishan chaha”
I have one question for you:
– Let’s say, you are a director, and you are accessible to any actor in this industry. Whom you like to direct?
Of course you like to go ahead with your fav.
For e.g. if i am director, i would like to make all my movie with Amitabh..
…another e.g.
1. Manmohan Desai tried to make all his movie with Amitabh
2. Yash Chopra direct movie for Amitabh and Shahrukh. It means his fav. is amitabh.
Same would be true in case of Rajesh ROshan. I wou
If he is so fond of Rafi then why Kishore sang his 90% songs..Any songs u remember of RR tune, you can find only Kishore. he also used Rafi in few composition:
1. Mujhe chhooo rahi hai
2. Saj rahi galli
and few…
He gave numerouos great songs to Kishore.
My personal fav.:
1. O yaara tum pyaaro se hai pyaara
2. Yaadon me sapno me hai
3. thoda hai thode ki jaroorat hai
4. kahte sunte baaton baaton me pyaar
Is there any match to these songs…..
Before i sign off:
I comment on link published by you:
…I would like to know the exact question asked to him against which he replied following line:
Every song will have a different singer. If I have one regret today, it is that my favourite singer Rafi is not there and Lata is not singing much
Here is the link:
http://www.india-forums.com/tellybuzz/article.asp?id=185
– Best singer is Kishore – shekhar
http://www.hindisong.com/Interview/Interview.asp?ContentID=928&cID=1766
– KK said Kishore is best
Ashu:
You haven’t even understood the context of the Pyarelal quote I provided.
My quote has nothing to do with Kishore. Since you did not catch the nuance, let me repeat the context:
Lata mentioned most of Rafi’s songs were good. Pyarelal mentioned ALL his songs are good. So clearly there is a disagreement.
BTW, who is Rajesh Roshan’s favourite singer again?? Hello…………
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2007/06/29/stories/2007062950770100.htm
Rajesh Roshan:” If I have one regret today, it is that my favourite singer Rafi is not there and Lata is not singing much.”
ASHU: Now you can put Rajesh Roshan in the same bracket as AR Rahman 😉
My dear friend Vikram,
I pity on you when you said “I am insecure”..
If you are fan of someone, then it is possible to keep record of all the things.
You are right, nobody need to prove anything abt rafi or kishore. World knows abt them.
Pls. listen “Yaad na jaaye” not as Rafi fan but as music lover, i will reliaze his voice had “Kharash” in “YAAD” and “JAAYE”. I was surprised because his voice was kharas not once but many time in same songs. I can give many example like this 🙂
Note: “Yaad na jaaye” is one of my fav. rafi’s song.
Boss, i have big collection of Rafi. and i am not frustrated, pls. read ur last blog..You will face the truth.
You are not one…there are many rafians who spread wrong information to console themselves like..
1. Kishore sang many songs in chorous (u r an exceptional)
2. Kishore went off key and blah blah
Dear Vikram, sometime u should think abt others. As u felt hurting Rafi’s legacy by discussing his pious name in a debate so as we. Why don’t you see other aspect of coin. You will reliaze other also felt the same…
Let me start with Sudip…
Dear Sudip…
I don’t know how you guys are cooking up stories.
You wrote one paragraph on Rafi and Pyarelal. I have published a link on Pyaelal interview few month ago, he said nice thing abt legends, he accepted that Rafi is his fav., but he did not forget to mention Kishore. Abt lata, he said he regret that Lata could not sing in Male voice.>/b>
I want you to explain above bold line…
And i completely respect Pyarelal opinion…Why pyarelal, i respect ur opinion, and Asha (Kishore is best) too…
Most of the time, you rafians pretend that you know music better than anybody else, and always tried to degrade Kishore’s talent and his achievement. Why you forget one thing, Rafi was on top for many year though there were so many great singers like Manna dey, Talat, Mukesh….They could not compete with Rafi, but it was Kishore who not only compete with him but also dethrone him..
— Dhani Ram…
I remember last month when there was debate on Asha duets with rafi and Kishore…U said (in fact u lie) u don;t know much abt Kishore and Asha duets. and now i am surprised to read you mentioning “Yeh hawa yeh nadi ka kinara,kishti ka khamosh safar hai”. I feel great at least u started listening kishore 🙂
DHani Ramji…Jo best hota hai wohi bikta hai…Kishore is still on the top in Hindi fimi music since 69 [This is my reply to SUDIP in the context of “express and local train” 🙂 – sudip, i would like to alter ur example with express train-Rafi and aeroplane-Kishore (both are mode of transporation like music)].
Dhaniram, Can you send few songs where u felt kishore = badly trails to Lata?
Here are few songs where Kishore is 100 times better than Lata..
1. Ghum hai kisi ke pyaar me..
2. E mousam aaye hai, kitne saalo me
3. Salame ishq meri jaan
4. tum aa gaye ho..(kishore entry was awesome)
5. aa re aa ja…nindiya tu le chal kahi
6. waada karo nahi chhodi gi tum mera saath
7. aapki aankho me kuchh
8. sarkati jaaye hai rukh se naqab
(though Lata put great effort especially when she sang “ahista ahista”, but kishore dominate the show)
9. pukaro mujhe phir pukaro
dhaniramji, i think i already answered ur doubt.
LOL @ Raj P’s comment about Meri Bheegi Bheegi Si being better than any Rafi sad song in the 70’s. This is a routine, simple, average song taken to no great heights by the singing. If Rafi had sung it he would have turned it into a classic. There are many better sad songs that Kishore has sung than the one from Anamika, and Rafi’s sad songs in the 70s’s (since you want to compare only 70’s songs) beat out Kishore sad songs by miles. A very poor example, citing Anamika’s average song, but then this is expected from KK fans because KK simply doesn’t have the vast repetoire of classic songs that Rafi has.
Ofcourse Rafi’s voice had power, it had the most power and punch, Kishore or any other singer did not come anywhere close. If Kishore tried to put power into his songs, it would end up being loud, whereas with Rafi, the rendition, voice and song was always melodious.
‘Churaliya Hai Tumne” and “Aaja Aaja” are known for Rafi’s singing, there is no way Asha is better than Rafi in these songs or others. In the case of “Churaliya Hai Tumne”, RD should be lucky, that he had Rafi to sing this song. Thank goodness he chose Rafi and not Kishore for this song or it would not have been as popular as it is. Rafi was a one man industry and the greatest, he didnt need anyone, or NH (as you mentioned) to give him tunes, every MD including RD gave him tunes because he was the best, and the only one who could sing them. It’s a well known fact, that Rafi carried his duets with Asha and Lata, so any talk of Asha carrying Rafi in this song, or any songs (as well as Lata carrying Rafi in any songs), is definitely not true.
Rafi wouldn’t dare attempt KK numbers ?. This can only come from an ignorant person who doesn’t have a clue about music. Rafi could sing KK numbers in his sleep, KK could never ever attempt or come anywhere near Rafi songs. HamaraCD doesn’t matter, and it definitely doesn’t prove KK was the greatest. I feel sorry that KK fans bring up absolutely worthless examples to prove their point. If you’re talking about novelty, Rafi had the greatest of them all, Kishore or any singer was far behind.
Rafi was brilliant in classical singing, Pandit Gyan Prakash Ghosh, the doyen of classical music considered Rafi to be the greatest when it came to classical singing and songs. You may have your personal views, but it doesn’t alter the fact that Rafi was brilliant in this genre, as well as all other genres, and was the best in all genres and was the greatest singer of all time. What about Kishore in the classical genre, you failed to mention it ?. Oh wait, he doesn’t have any classical songs that merit discussion, and it was another genre, of the many, that he could not attempt and do well in, and yet you want to compare him to Rafi ?.
“Main Jat Yamla” was much better than “Khaike Pan Banarawala”. The Don song was average and hardly had any melody, but look at how much melody there is in Rafi’s rendition compared to KK’s rendition, and “Main Jat Yamla” is a better song than “Khaike Pan” purely because of the singing. If Rafi had sung the Don song, it would have been much better. Also, Rafi was much better than KK when it came to masti songs too.
Thanks for mentioning “Ek Rasta Do Rahi” where Kishore is literally screaming trying to match Rafi, and Rafi’s rendition is great and melodious as usual. Rafi always had a better voice than KK, and it was never gone after 1973 as you mentioned. It was always golden and rich just like in every year and decade. KK’s voice deteriorated, whereas Rafi’s voice kept on shining.
Kishore’s voice pristine in the late 80’s ?. This is a joke and one of the funniest comment I have ever read on this site.
I never wanted to join this debate because such nonsense is being spread all over this site. Rafi beats out any singer when it comes to voice, melody, range, versatility etc. KK fans can’t seem to accept that Rafi was better and the greatest, and that there were many better singers than their idol, and Rafi leads that list.
Dhani Ram wrote:
Heard some Lata Kishore duets.Kishore badly trails Lata.While Lata’s voice is supple,modulatory,free and flexible,Kishore’s is wooden.
Reply- One song that quickly come to my mind is “Jeevan ki Bagiya Mehkegi” from Tere mere sapne.
kk is nowhere when compared to Lata in that song.
ASHU and KK fans:
Refer to my post #883. I had mentioned that Rafi was equal if not better in Rajesh Roshan’s eyes. The reason why they went with Kishore in most films was because of the genre of the movies (which suited Kishore more though Rafi could have sung them as well).
Here is a proof of that:
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2007/06/29/stories/2007062950770100.htm
Rajesh Roshan:” If I have one regret today, it is that my favourite singer Rafi is not there and Lata is not singing much.”
ASHU: Now you can put Rajesh Roshan in the same bracket as AR Rahman 😉
Rajpal Sahib
I have a CD containing duets of 70s.
Karwatein badalte rahe sari raat hum.Lata carries the song.Kishore is wooden and jaded.He is not able sing the notes properly.Voice is muffled and articulation weak.It is a popular song but Kishore is a complete failure.
This one is followed by Teri bindya re.Rafi outshines Lata.The song is more complex than the previous one.
Then comes the popular number from Andhi;Tum aa gaye ho saroor aa gaya hai.Again Lata’s song.Kishore sings the first line reasonably well.In the second he is prosaic and jerky.The song is romantic and needs a softer voice.Kishore heavy and coughie voice is totally unsuitable for the song.
This one is followed by:Yun he tum mujh se baat karti ho.Again both Rafi and Asha sing it very well though Rafi’s articulation is much better.Asha’s voice has a serious defect.It gets repeatedly compressed even when singing a single line in any song.
Next is:Parbat ke peeche Chambe ka gaon.Rafi the same master as in two previous ones.
Next comes: Aankhon mein kajal.Horrendous performance by Kishore.He is unable to articulate anything.Voice simply doesn’t come out.Jinhe naaz hai Kishore par voh kahaan hain?Did Asha include this one also when she said that Kishore 100% songs were sung well?Not even a Kishore fanatic will like this one but will still assert in public that it is good to doggedly carry on his animus against the greatest singer,Rafi.
This is followed by Rafi Asha duet:Kya dekhte ho surat tumhari.Does this superb rendering by Rafi need any comment?
Comes another Lata Kishore duet:Tum sang preet lagai sajna.Where is that touted full throated quality of Kishore?Kishore is complete flop.Just rasping and grating sounds expelled from the throat with great labour.
Then comes Rafi Lata masterpiece: Zihale maskin.What a song.Here is music in its true form and how divinely have the two greatest singers of Indian film music have sung it.Compare this one with all the kishore stuff cited above.
I can go on and on.There is not even one song sung badly by Rafi in his entire career.Composition might have been bad but the quality of voice salvaged it.Kishore sang all the songs cited above badly.
Raj Sahib:You must have heard Rafi’s non-panegyric to Mahatma Gandhi:Suno suno ai dunya walo Bapu ki yeh amar kahani.Cite any non-film song of Kishore as popular as this.But Kishore will draw a blank.He is dumb in most forms of Indian singing.Please don’t do gross injustice to Kishore by putting him on pedestal where he becomes an object of ridicule.You like him.Go on listening to him.
Vikram
Please don’t withdraw.We are not on this forum just to debate Ashu Sahib and Rajpal Sahib.If you may recall in one of my very first posts I said that there is actually nothing to debate.Rafi is the Mount Everest of Indian music whereas all others are just foothills.But this discussion is deepening our own appreciation of music.So please stay back.
This is one good article on Rafi, kk and burmans…(in rediff)
Here is sone portion of the article… (kk fans may not like)
——————————————————————-
Kishore, for all his voice quality, did restrict Dada Burman in his compositional ambit. But SD instinctively recognised that compositions, by 1970, had to be less complex to find a ready reception in the audience’s ear. So Dada settled for Kishore (at the expense of Rafi).
http://inhome.rediff.com/movies/2000/oct/31burman.htm
Hello Friends, and Mr. MYK sahab,
Here is the quotation from s. janaki, a famous lady singer from the south.
In India, after the greatest singers, Mohd. Rafi, ghantasala & Kishore kumar, SPB is the greatest.
One Mr. MYK, I do not know what he means to say, His favourite rafi admired and praised ghantasala. The suvarna sundari song first sung by ghantasala in telugu was practised by rafi at least 30 times subsequently, still rafi could not match upto ghantasala’s rendering. In fact, rafi had told ghantasala at that time that I am not able to digest your culture of singing. Similiarly, Rafi’s song chal ud ja re panchi, was sung by ghantasala subsequently (first rafi had sung it) with ease in a more high pitch than rafi. This was told by rafi ji himself. I had association with SPB and P B srinivas, P suseela, Jesudas etc. from the south. All of are firm opinion that Both ghantasala and mohd. rafi are the greatest in playback singing and are legends revered by all. If ghantasala is greatest in south, rafi is greatest in bollywood.
To say SPB, Jesudas as greater than ghantasala, is saying kumar sanu is greater than rafi.
MYK sir, one point, Hear Bhagavad gita sung by ghantasala in telugu. It is a immortal recording. NO such talent exists in entire hindusthan.
Anyhow, carnatic and hindusthani legends are two corners in their own way. So pl. do not make such comparisons which are not fair.
Similarly, kishore is also one of the greatest singer. You know he was the only person who had the calibre to eclipse rafi and indeed he eclipsed. But do you know, till today, no body could eclipse ghantasala, Indeed ghantasala did not have competition when he was alive and there will not be. Padyams are a unique genre of singing in telugu and ghantasala was a master of that. Not even jesudas, even spb and balamuralikrishna could not render the padyams even to the extent of 50% of ghantasala leave songs. What do you know about the talent of ghantasala. Ask any telugu person about what i have written above, and you will get a fitting reply. Ghantasala is revered as master by all the southern playback singers. As rafi is called amar gayak in hindi, ghantasala is also called amar gayak in south. Your knowledge about ghantasala is very very limited. Incomplete knowledge is dangerous pl.
A small story… There were two person say X and Y who were debating on who is a better batsman. Is it Sachin or Ganguly. X was supporting Sachin and Y was supporting Ganguly.
X said .. Sachin is better than Ganguly bcos
1> He has more one day centuries and test centuries than Ganguly. Infect he has highest number of centuries/
2> He has more runs in onedayers and test matches
3> His average is far better than Ganguly in both form of cricket.
4> His strike rate (number of runs per 100 balls) is more than Ganguly.
5> He has scored runs everywhere in the world and almost against all opposition consistently where as Ganguly is a flop show against quality bowling like Australia and Pakistan.
6> Sachin has scored more half centuries than Ganguly.
7> Sachin can play every shot in the cricket book where as Gangulty is not comfortable against short pitch fast bowling.
8> Sachin is better runner between the wicket and more agile where as Ganguly is lazy and gets run out or gets his partner run out many times.
So Sachin is the best… Now it was Y’s turn to defend Ganguly… He said…
1> Lara has still more number of test runs than Sachin so Ganguly is better.
2> Lara has scored 500 runs in one inng and Sachin has never done that do Ganguly is better.
3> Ponting’s test average is slightly higher than sAchin so Ganguly is better.
4> Dravid has scored more double centuries than Sachin so Ganguly is better.
5> Once Ganguly scored 144 runs against Australia and Sachin failed in the same match so Ganguly is better.
6> Laxman scored 280 against Australia to win the game so Ganguly is better.
7> Jaysuria and Afridi can hit more sixes than Tendulkar so Ganguly is better.
8> Bradman’s average is 99 and much higher than Sachin so Ganguly is better.
9> Only Sehwag in Indian batsmen has scored 2 triple centuries (not Sachin) , so Ganguly is better.
Person X fainted. I asked person Y.. how did u manage such an argument? He said he was reading a debate going on between Rafi and kk fans and he got inspired by person named Ashu!. I fainted too.
myk,
It will be nice if you can mention number of songs sung by Rafi and kk from 1947 till 1980. Quantity means a lot. It tells who was most preferred singer by most of the MD’s? We all know that Rafi was ahead of kk till 1971 and then kk took over. However, numbers will give us more detail.
Ashu, success is relative term. For you, Ek main aue ek too could be a hit song just like Aachha to hum chalte hain. For me and others, it could be a stupid song with no value!
Many people said that Lata, Asha, RD and Bappi preferred KK over Rafi.
However List in favour Rafi is much longer… Manna Dey, Mukesh, Ravi, Naushad, Madan Mohan, SJ, SP, OP, SD and many more…
You could see that in collective opinion Rafi is far ahead of kk. Check Outlook poll and who was singer of milenium.
Raj, I did hear Ghantasala version of Chal ud ja re panchhi and I found Rafi version far better. It is individual choice. You can’t make a statement that Ghantasala was better than Rafi as you like him more. (OR are using same logic of Ashu to bring in someone else in comparison to defend poor kk? ).. He hehehe….
Vipul..
u wrote:
MyK, thanks for the detail….
It means Rafi was ahead of kk till atlease 71.
1969: Rafi – 194, KK – 20
1970: Rafi – 131, KK – 47
1971: Rafi – 131, KK – 102
1972: Rafi – 95, KK – 137
kk just became popular from 69 onwards… and then overtook rafi in 72
My comments:
Can you also send % of success songs from 69 to 72?
And, Kishore did not become popular from 69..He become popular as a great singer from “GUIDE”, “TEEN DEVIYAAN”, “MR. X IN BOMBAY”, “JEWEL THIEF”, “PADOSAN” and many more….
Ashu,
It is not possible to keep record of all the things that one reads. And by the way nobody needs to prove anything about Rafi. There was nobody like him and there will never be anybody like him. He is beyond comparision. My dear you picked on the wrong song to analyse the greatest singer of all times. “Yaad Na Jaaye” is one of the best ever songs. Check out other Rafi songs from the same movie. I think All these songs were recorded more or less at the same time. I don’t find anything of the sort that you are bickering about in this particular song. I know you are so insecure in comparing Kishore Kumar with Rafi that you started picking on the Rafi traits that majority of the listeners adored.
When a distraught lover is in pain,he sings with dry throat and moist eyes. You are mistaking Rafi sahab’s improvisation as something else. You only listen to Kisore Kumar songs which for most part sound good but are bereft of improvisation and are low on expression. So it’s not your fault. I can understand your frustration and ignorance of the nuances of music. You can only understand what you are exposed to.
If we apply the very same logic to Kishore Kumar’s songs, the most of them will be questionable and debatable. Ashu, It was a pleasure to have discussed with you and others on this forum. I will not be able to carry it any further, as I think I will be hurting Rafi’s legacy by discussing his pious name in a debate that is so disgusting as this one.
MUKESH IS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
TALAT SECOND
RAFI THIRD
FOURTH MANNA
FIFTH KISHORE
SIXTH BHUPINDER
SEVENTH SHAILENDRA SINGH
EIGHTH SAIGAL, SURESH WADKAR
NINTH KUMAR SANU
TENTH SONU NIGAM
with rafi, rajesh khanna would have been another jeetendra and not the superstar and #1 that he became in the 70s. he’d have never came close to the success he had with kishore. rafi was the main voice of rajesh khanna since mid 60s but failed to bring success. it’s only when kishore sang for rajesh khanna did the latter rise to unparalled heights of craze. such was the phenomenon, that hrishikesh mukherjee had to make a movie on it! would the same craze of aradhana come had the songs been in rafi’s voice? no, rafi’s voice was monotonously routine.
rafi’s voice was gone after 1973. his voice sounded so coarse by then. hear him in “ek rasta do rahi” – how poor his voice sounds in the opening lines. or listen to the rafi-asha duet zindagi ke safar mein and as soon as rafi comes into the song – i have to skip the track because it ruins the song. on the contrary, kishore’s voice was pristine – even in the late 80s. it just goes to show that kishore could stand the test of time that rafi could not.
main jat yamla pagla deewana would have been a much greater success had it been in the vocals of kishore. rafi’s soft voice just didn’t have the same level of resounding power. that song was a “khaike pan banaraswala” wannabe but couldn’t reach the same success in the masti songs.
if you ever want to hear how bad rafi can be in classical singing – just hear baat chalat a duet with krishnarao. he sounds like he’s falling down the stairs. of course, half of the teenagers that post have never even heard of the song because instead of listening to music – they just talk about things they know not much of.
if rafi had sang a song like meri bheeghi bheeghi se – it’d have been routine and trite. kishore added the freshness and novelty that rafi could not. that song alone is better than anything rafi ever sang in the 70s for a sad song category (i limited to 70s for the sake of corresponding comparison). nevermind a song like rhim jhim gire sawan which by then rafi’s voice was gone.
rafi wouldn’t dare attempt kishore’s numbers because he couldn’t bring the same success. aradhana, mere naina sawan bhadon, meri bheeghi bheeghi se, sharmilee, badi sooni sooni – kishore added the novelty that rafi could not. why is the hamaracd top 20 dominaed by kishore? barely one rafi.
asha outclassed rafi in aaja aaja main hoon pyar tera. she exemplarily stretched out the aaja aaja part that rafi lacked the spontaneity to deliver. pucho na yaar kya hua – another rafi – asha tandem song. asha’s version was more melodious and had more personality. there’s goes the talk of asha being afraid of rafi. chura liye – another rafi-asha number. asha carried rafi in that song. replace rafi with kishore and that song would have enjoyed the same popularity, in fact, in 1973 – it would have been much higher on the charts. rafi was lucky that nasir hussain got him that tune and got him to sing along with asha. asha added that unique, special, sultry touch in the opening lines of chura liye that gave the song so much popularity. rafi’s part was just plain and routine.
kishore > rafi.
Heard some Lata Kishore duets.Kishore badly trails Lata.While Lata’s voice is supple,modulatory,free and flexible,Kishore’s is wooden.Kishore’s pre-70s duets with Asha are superb.Yeh hawa yeh nadi ka kinara,kishti ka khamosh safar hai etc are as good as any.Kishore’s misfortune was that he didn’t sing much when he should have .When he burst upon the music scene his voice began to lose its quality very soon.He could have been a much better singer.But even at his best he could have come nowhere near Rafi.The reason is that great Lata herself trails Rafi.Where was any chance for a lesser mortal?
Friends,
Kishore da is the *HOLY GRAIL* of music. As an audience I believe there is no singer atleast born who can bring the *MAGIC* of Kishore da.
ASHU, RAJ AND OTHERS
AAP KUCH LOG KYA SABIT KARNA CHAHTE HEIN KE KISHORE KUMAR IS BETTER THAN RAFI JI, NO WAY.
KISHORE KUMAR KNEW RAFI SAHAB WAS MUCH GREAT SINGER THAN HIM OR ANY SINGER IN BOLLYWOOD. KISHORE KUMAR HAD ONCE SAID THAT;
JO GANA MAIN NAHIN GA SAKTA US GANE KO RAFI SAHAB NE BADI ASANI SE GA LIYA, WOH MUJHSE BADE SINGER THE.
KISHORE HIMSELF KNEW THIS FACT SO WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE TO COMPERE RAFI SAHAB WITH KISHORE KUMAR.
ITS TRUE EVERYBODY HAS THIER OWN TASTE IN MUSIC, SO IF YOU LIKE SOME OTHER SINGER THAT DOES NOT MEAN HE IS BETTER THAN RAFI SAHAB.
RAFI SAHAB SHINES FROM PLAYBACK SINGERS AND IS BEST FROM ALL THE SINGERS.
IT IS A FACT.
EXAPLE; KUMAR SANU AND UDIT BOTH ARE GOOD SINGERS BUT EVERYBODY KNOWS WHO IS BETTER, IT’S UDIT. IN THE SAME WAY KISHORE AND RAFI JI ARE BOTH GOOD SINGERS BUT RAFI JI WAS, IS AND ALLWAYS WILL BE AHEAD OF ALL THE PLAYBACK SINGERS FROM BOLLYWOOD AND THAT IS BECAUSE HE IS THE ONLY COMPLETE SINGER. HE COULD SING ANY THING, YOU NAME IT AND YOU GET IT IN RAFI SAHABS VOICE,
ROMANTIC
SAD
QAWALLI
BHAJAN
NAAT
SHABAD
FAST SONGS
SLOW SONGS
GHAZAL
CLASSICAL
ROCK N ROLL
THE LIST CAN GO ON AND ON, RAFI SAHAB HAS ALLSO SANG IN DEFFERENT LANGUEGES BEUTYFULLY LIKE;
PUNAJBI
BENGALI
GUJRATI
TAMIL AND SOME OTHERS, SO NO OTHER SINGER CAN TOUCH RAFI SAHABS VERSATILTY AND THE MELODIUS VOICE POWER AND EXPRESSION HE USED TO PUT IN A SONG,
I AM A FAN OF KISHORE TOO, BUT AS FAR AS VOICE AND VERSATILITY COMES IN NOBODY CAN BEAT RAFI SAHAB, I MEAN KISHORE IS A LEGEND, MUKSH IS LEGEND, TALAT IS A LEGEND, MAHENDRA KAPOOR IS A LEGEND, BUT ALL THESE LEGENDS CAN NOT COMPETE WITH RAFI SAHAB. RAFI SAHAB IS THE GREATEST LEGEND.
AS FAR AS GHANTASALA SAHAB IS CONCERND I THINK HE WAS NOT A ALL ROUNDER, I MEAN HE HAS NOT SANG ANY THING LIKE;
JOHN JANI JANARDHAN – NASEEB
MAIN JAT YAMLA PAGLA DEEWANA – PRATIGYA
AAJ MAUSAM BADA BEIMAN HAI – LOAFER
TUM JO MIL GAYE HO – HANSTE ZAKHAM
TERI BINDIYA RE – ABHIMAN
TUJHKO PUKARE MERA PYAR -NEEL KAMAL
BABUL KI DUAYEN LETI JA – NEEL KAMAL
KYA HUA TERA WADA – HAM KISI SE KAM NAHIN
PARDA HAI PARDA – AMAR AKBAR ANTHONY
TERI GALION MEIN – HAWAS
SAB KE REHTE LAGTA HAI JAISE – SAMJHOTA
HUSN WALE TERA JAWAB NAHIN – GHARANA
CHAUDVIN KA CHAND HO – CHAUDVIN KA CHAND
JANE WALO ZARA – DOSTI
CHAHUNGA MAIN TUJHE SANJ SAVERE – DOSTI
HAM KALE HEIN TO KYA HAU – GUMNAM
PARDESION SE NA AKHIYAN – JAB JAB PHOOL KHILEN
CHALKAYE JAM – MERE HAMDAM MERE DOST
KHILONA JAN KAR – KHILONA
PATHAR KE SANAM – PATHAR KE SANAM
SARE ZAMANE PE MAUSAM – AAP AAYE BAHAAR AAYI
DIL KA SOONA SAAZ – EK NARI DO ROOP
BADAN PE SITARE – PRINCE
YEH JO CHILMAN HAI – MEHBOOB KI MEHNDI
TUHI WOH HASEEN HAI – KHWAB
TU IS TARHA SE – AAP TO AISE NA THE
NAFRAT KI DUNIYA KO – HATHI MERE SATHI
THE LIST CAN GO ON AND ON,
HAS GHANTASALA SANG ANTHING LIKE THIS? I BET HE HAS NOT.
HE DID NOT HAVE VARIETY IN HIS SONG , HE WAS A CLASSICAL SINGER, SO WE CAN’T COMPERE HIM WITH RAFI SAHAB, RAFI SAHAB WAS ALL ROUNDER. I HAVE HEARD GHANTASALA SAHABS SONGS AND NO WAY I CAN COMPERE HIM OR ANY OTHER SINGER WITH RAFI SAHAB.
MOHAMMAD RAFI SAHAB KI AWAZ AUR RANGE TAK KOI NAHIN POHANCH SAKA AUR NA HI KOI POHANCH PAYEGA. HE WAS , IS , WILL BE THE GREATEST LEGEND OF BOLLYWOOD.
RAJA.
Vikram, you are absolutely spot on, no amount of discussion and references will ever make Kishore better than Rafi. It doesn’t really matter if Lata and Asha are praising Kishore. In this case, Lata and Asha as you mentioned were jealous of Rafi. It is a fact that the majority consider Rafi the greatest, it has been said, writtenr, recorded etc. a billion times, and nothing will change that. If KK fans do not want to accept that, then it is purely out of ignorance. KK doesn’t match up to Rafi in any way, its really quite obvious. It’s also not fair comparing Rafi and Kishore, its like comparing apples and oranges, Rafi is miles ahead of any singer. It would be better discussing Rafi and Kishore songs that people like rather than comparing the two.
I have seen on this site that many of the points KK fans bring up are subjective, and not based on fact. The points they mention are purely opinions and perceptions, and doesn’t change anything about Rafi’s unmatched versatility and greatness.
Raj, ofcourse Rafi is the greatest of all time. Whatever happened after Aradhana makes no difference to Rafi’s greatness. Aradhana didn’t prove anything about Kishore’s ability to match Rafi, because he simply could not, it just was good for Kishore that his singing career finally took off, why compare him to the greatest Rafi when there is no comparison ?. So what if people took a liking to Kishore, people take a liking to many singers, it doesn’t prove that KK was the best.
Ghantasala doesn’t match up to Rafi in any way. There are better singers in the South than Ghantasala such as Yesudas and SPB and they also are no where near Rafi, so how can you compare Ghantasala to Rafi ?. Singing some identical songs to Rafi doesn’t prove anything as well, and in those cases the Rafi versions were better than the Ghantasala versions too.
If you mean to say KK’s repetoire is the greatest, then you are purely in an ignorant state of mind. Kishore’s repetoire is miles behind that of Rafi, SPB, Yesudas, Ghantasala, Lata, Asha etc. They all sang songs Kishore never sang and could not even attempt, so to say Ghantasala has not sung song that are identical to KK songs is not true. The truth is Kishore doesn’t have songs that are identical to any of the singers I mentioned above and more, simply because he did not have the talent and skill to render them. Please do your homework before coming to such conclusions.
Btw, according to RDB, his “prized composition” was sung by Rafi. I’ll let KK fans take a guess at what song that was. As Vikram pointed out, even RD and KK knew, and mentioned, that Rafi was the greatest.
Ashu, you are a strong KK defender against many of the Rafi fans here, but bringing up examples like singing “chak chak chak” in sur from ZKDH, is foolish, which is why I refrain from respoding to your views, as they are purely subjective and not based on fact. The opening of that ZKDH song was meant to be sung that way, it was totally in sur as all Rafi songs were, and the disco song yet again demonstrates Rafi’s phenomenal range.
Ashu Sir
I must say that you are clever.I had showed up in my post the hollowness and illogicality of Asha’s baseless assertions.Re-read my post and you will find there that by Asha’s own criterion Kishore is not the best singer.Rafi is.If some people’s prejudices and biases grudge Rafi this position,then by the criterion of sur mein gaana which Asha was repeating,
Saigal and Mnna De are.Please follow the logic of her statement and don’t put your own words into her mouth.She didn’t use the word surile.
Your reply to Vikram also is short of logic.Lata,Asha,RD formed a coterie.Outside the coterie,practically every musical maestro acknowledges Rafi’s supremacy.Sudip in one of his posts has given a list of some such luminaries.It can be further expanded.
Ashu Sir,what is your criteria for someone who should occupy the highest position in the world of music?Let us know it.Is the only criterion the name of Kishore?If that is so,there is no scope for further debate.But if you have some norms,spell them out.Mine is capability of singing in all genres with equal ease at all pitches in a mellifluous voice.In film industry only two singers meet this criterion:Rafi and Lata,in that order.
Let me dispel some of your delusions.You have cited something that happened on Dhoom Macha Le.Your problem is that you choose the lowest denominator in support of your groundless assertions.One day they were singing light songs on that show and leaving aside one by Kishore all were by Rafi.That is only to meet your argument at your level.I don’t care a bit for what is presented as music on TV.It is an assault on sensibilities.On Farishta channel of Radio World Space a two hour programme of film qawwalis was broadcast.Rafi was the leading singer in many of them.Kishore in none.The best was,of course,Yeh ishq ishq hai ishq ishq.And Rafi alongwith Manna De sang it marvellously.Again if an Indian singer hasn’t sung anything worthwhile in this genre what justice has he done to this great Indian genre of singing?Take any genre Rafi stands out the tallest.Or do you think qawallis are not music,that is why they are shut out from TV shows.Aren’t you appalled by the show K4K? If you believe that what we hear and see in that show is music,then I think we are having a futile debate.We shoul have some common criteria for this debate to be fruitful otherwise we will be just flourishing our sword aimlessly.
Rafi’s range and melody are indeed phenomenal.Rafi fans must have heard that wonderful song from a now forgotten film:yeh raste hain piar ke.Zulf lehrai teri aur meri taqdeer bani.The prelude is sung in the style of Heer.And I have heard Heer by many many well-known as well as not so well-known singers including Lata’s botched up version in Heer Ranjha.Rafi’s is the best.Better than that of Mehdi Hassan,Gulam Ali,Reshma and Asa Singh Mastana.Unfortunately only the prelude is sung.I wish the whole song was Heer.Nevertheless this song is absolutely beyond the singing capabilities of any other singer–film or non–film.When I say this I mean it purely on objective grounds.Listen to the song and look at the range of notes employed at every step.
I don’t agree with those who say that no reference should be made to singers other than Rafi and Kishore when debating the issue.References are necessary for analogy and a comprehensive argument.The only problem with bringing in Ghantasala is that most of us may not be familiar with regional singers.As far as I am concerned Ataullah Khan of Pakistan may be a better singer than Ghantasala.But most people may not have heard his absolute gems in Punjabi.So no judgement can be made.
Ashu and others:
Let us for a second accept the following statements are individually true:
1. Kishore has sung 100% of his songs well. Rafi sang 80% of his songs well. (Lata, Asha)
2. Kishore overtook Rafi in the early 70s (Ashu).
Even then it does not mean that Kishore was a greater singer. The cumulative effect of the 80% Rafi songs could well be greater than 100% Kishore’s good songs.
That is exactly what I have been stating all along. It is not about individual songs or who overtook whom. The overall effect of Rafi for 35 years of music was greater than Kishore, possibly close to or more than Lata.
Let me end with an analogy…Usually when an express train enters a terminal station, few local trains may overtake it…That does not mean the overall velocity of the local trains are higher than the express train. It is the sustainability and effect that counts..
PS: Pyarelal on Rafi:
“He could sing in any range or octave. If today’s composers are to flower, the Almighty should create nine Rafis more! Can we find even a single song of his that is badly rendered?”
-So clearly Pyarelal differs with Lata. Greats do have their opinions.. Let us respect them but nothing is sacrosanct…
Dhani ram ji,
U wrote:
Vipul,what about:Hum bekhudi mein tum ko pukare chale gaye?Something beyond the capabilities of Kishore.
my reply:
Boss, Indivisual taste vary from people to people. Song from Kaala Panni was great, but i would prefer song from SHarmilee over Kaala Paani.
– Kaise kahe hum, Pyaar ne humko kya kya khel dekhaye
– Dosto mere kisse ho gaye khatm sare, ab na koi pukare main sharab pi raha hu….from different movie…
Dhani RamJi, WHy RDB said Rafi went wrong in “Aaja Aaja main hu pyar tera”?
Here is reply for ur doubt on Asha’s comment:
u wrote:
Another amusing thing that Asha said was:Kishore is liye sabse barey singer the kyonki veh hamesha sur mein gaate the.
My reply:
Asha ne e nahi kaha ki…Sehgal or other singers were not surile….She was talking abt Kishore..my dear friend.
But ha…Lata ne e jarror kaha hai ki….Kishore was great in all songs, Rafi was great in few songs so as Mukesh….
Hope u understood it…
Dear Vikram,
You supposed to share all songs Kishore sang in chorus :). Last month you claimed that Kishore sang in Chorus. Pls. send reliable link
Note: Generous request, don’t upload ur website with false information
FYI, i don’t disowned Rehman because his favourite is Rafi, it is not only my view, but also my music knowledge view that he put 90% effort on sound than vocal or melody. I like only few songs of his composition.
Boss., my believe is, any song should impact on ur soul or mind on its first release which is 90% true in case of great MDs like RDB, SDB, LP, SJ and many. If same song is repeating numerous time on Radio, tv or any entertainment device, it implies u r forced to listem.
e.g.
worst songs of this century.
– All songs from Rand De basanti (except Lata/Rehman song)
– All songs from Nayak (I believe Nayak was fantastic movie, but music score was really worst, due to this film was flopped, and same music was hit in Tamil)
– Fanna from Yuva and there are many more..
U said quite right :
No amount of discussion and references will ever make Kishore Kumar better than Rafi as far as singing goes
I would like to swap few word from here and there…It should be>
No amount of discussion and references will ever make Rafi better than Kishore in any field especially Playback singing
I don’t understand onething, If lata, asha and RD praise Kishore then u said they are twisting their comment, they are loser and blah blah..
World knows who is loser and who is gainer.
For evidence, we can see “K for Kishore”, dedicated programme on genious Kishore, and fyi this programme is on his singing talent, not acting, composition, direction, production or lyricist…
I would like to clear ur doubt. Noone was jealous to rafi…Rafi was great human being, and everyone respect het. I think U have not read my last few blog on Lata’s comment abt Rafi. It is you people originating all fake or twisted stories abt other legends. I don’t know why you are talking on behalf of millions that Rafi is great. I respect ur view, but don’t say it is world view.
There are many evidence that even today’s MD prefer Kishore..
Pls. watch “DHOOM MACHA DE”…Babul sang “Kuch to log kahenge”…He sang good, but instead of praising babul judges like (Shankar – MD, Prasoon JOshi – lyricist and Sharmila Tagore) spoke abt great Kishore. They said great things abt Kishore which are not new though.
I differ on Rafi’s range…..If his range was phenomenal, then why could not he sing …
chak chak chakak chak from “Zamane ko dikhana hai” in sur.
Raj, I think we ar comparing Rafi and Kishore, so no need to bring ghanasala in comparison… just stick to subject…. a sincere request…..
MyK, thanks for the detail….
It means Rafi was ahead of kk till atlease 71.
1969: Rafi – 194, KK – 20
1970: Rafi – 131, KK – 47
1971: Rafi – 131, KK – 102
1972: Rafi – 95, KK – 137
kk just became popular from 69 onwards… and then overtook rafi in 72. The competiton ended in 80 after Rafi’s death.. Now lets see who was ruling hindi music for longer time? I guess 3rd standard student can answer this easy math question.
A R Rehman…
—————–
most of today’s Md have said he is no 1.
Ashu, you asked me to put excellent songs of Rehman… ( as MD)
here is the list.. I am sure I can put more than this…
1> Ahista ahista… (Swadesh) Listen to this one and you will realise power of music and lyrics and vocal of Udit (much smoother than kk)
2> Mitwa – Lagaan (Udit got film fare)
3> Baar baar han – Lagaan
4> O palan hare – Lagaan
5> Ramta Jogi – Taal
6> Roja- Title –
7> O ajnabi – Dil se
8> Jiya jale – Dil se
9> Oori Chhori – Lagaan
10> Barso re Barso – Guru
11> Taal – Title
12> Preyasi – Taal
13> Bombay – Tu hi re
14> Earth – Rut aa gayi re — Sukhwinder Singh amazing here…
I can put more.. but i think it is enough for u dear..
and by the way.. all Rafi’s songs were not high pitch… I must say.. he has used right pitch depending upon the song…
Bechara kk… can’t go on high pitch so has to settle for low and medium all the time!
Mr. MYK and other rafi fans.
You people say rafi is all time great. What do you mean by that all time. What happened during aradhana. why did the best playback singer award slipped from rafi. If rafi is all time great and incomparable, why did people get a liking for kishore da. please hence do not bluff about rafi as all time great, legend of legends etc. There are many writers here i.e. kishore da fans who have many times said that kishore is certainly better than rafi, so where is rafi’s all time greatness. Leave kishore kumar’s greatness against rafi, i advise you all to read my post 943, wherein i have detailed about another great legend from the south viz., shri ghantasala venkateshwara rao, who is also miles ahead of rafi. Hear shri ghantasala from my post 943 (i have posted some great songs of his), and you will forget rafi for lifetime. Shri ghantasala’s voice is the extreme melodious and majestic one and has the great attraction completely similar to our all time favourite kishore da.
Kishore kumar had eclipsed rafi, whereas shri ghantasala was contemporary to rafi and had some identical songs of rafi in telugu, where he performed greater than rafi. Since Shri ghantasala passed away in 1974, i think this great legend has not sungs identical to the great kishore kumar songs.
Lata ji, manna de all were for kishore kumar’s greatness after his entry while rafi was still there. So, rafi got eclipsed by kishore. There are greatest singers than rafi.
If Lata says that all KK songs were good, then she is out of her mind. We all know what he sang in the 80’s. Most of it was way below his standards. There were so many songs that he just throated. Yes, if she had said that whatever he sang before the 80’s was good, I would have agreed with her contention. Ashu, I think it’s the other way around. You disowned Rehman because his favourite is Rafi. Lata herself has said that among the present day musicians, Rehman is the only one who knows music. On this one also I don’t agree with her as like you I am not a big Rehman fan. Lata and Asha are known for twisting their tongue as per the situation and their convenience. It’s a known fact that Lata in her hey days played dirty politics with other singers.
Suman Kalyanpur is a perfect example of lata’s filth. She finished her off. Rafi was always ahead of his contemporaries, Lata included. He was so popular and matchless as a singer that she just could not succeed in her nasty designs. All the MD’s of that era just did not listen to her against Rafi. Later on Asha joined her in bad mouthing Rafi. It all started when RD Burman came into limelight. He along with The duo of sisters formed a cabal against Rafi. After almost a decade he realised his folly and went back to Rafi. It didn’t matter whether he used Rafi as he should have. He was more comfortable with Kishore. RD-Kishore combo gave us some of the best songs of the 70’s. Whatever Rafi sang for RD was pure gold. I must say that Kishore Kumar’s respect for Rafi was unwavering. He never said a thing against him. He knew how to coexist with his collegues, which unforunately Lata and Asha did not know. Hats off to Kishore Kumar! He was never jealous of rafi’s success. But the sister duo was always over-jealous of him.
They are still finding it difficult to cope up with the fact that Rafi indeed was the best ever. Their ego is as big as the universe. They are making a fool of themselves by demeaning Rafi. Asha once went on record saying that nobody could win Rafi sahab. To me it implies that in fact, according to her Rafi was the best. The two them are in a habit of giving a spin according to the situation. They have put themselves in such a position that now nobody believes them. Ashu, next time somebody goes to interview them on Rafi watch out for what they have to say about him. I am sure they will sing in chorus that nobody can beat Rafi.
No amount of discussion and references will ever make Kishore Kumar better than Rafi as far as singing goes. Everybody, including Kishore and RD in their heart of hearts felt that way. They even expressed it on some occasions. Well, the fact remains that they were stating the truth. Rafi’s range was phenomenal. That’s what RD thought. As an entertainer there was nobody better than Kisore, I concur. He could sing, act, direct and produce films, dance, and put up a comedy show. In being multifaceted he scores over Rafi. But, as a singer Rafi leaves everybody far behind, Kishore, Lata and Asha included.