An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980. […]
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
© Copyrighted to Yoodleeyoo.com All Rights Reserved.
only kishore da great
BOTH WERE VERY GOOD AND NICE PERSON.
BOTH HAD THEIR ONW WAY OF BEAUTY AND SUCCESSES
MERA BHARATH MAHAAN
To summarize all the above opinions..
i would say that both are great even now & they have their own style of renderation.. it is like comparing a GOLD with another GOLD..
There is no doubt that Kishoreda is best and mass popular.Rafi’s popularity is only among certain section of people,but Kishoreda’s popularity is among all kinds ,all ages of people.Kishoreda will remain the most popular and versatile artist of all times.He could modulate his voice to suit the actor,Rafi was not able to to do that.
SIMPLE TO SAY, BOTH WERE GREAT AND MANY OTHERS TOO.
Abishmal…
I appreciate your point.. Given a devil’s choice, Mukesh fans always love Kishore more than Rafi.. But, I expected a better analytical article on “who can sing what”.. because, the songs which you have mentioned, might just not show the correct picture .. because in films there are so many factors: Producer’s choice, Availibility of Singers, MD’s own biased preferences and so on.. So, when we say. for “Saathi”, Naushad used Mukesh and not Rafi and that means Rafi could not sing that song- might not be true.. It might have to do with producer’s personal choice of Mukesh.. I am not saying, this had exactly happened with Sathi, but this might have..It was just an example..
NONSENSE. who said rafi could sing evry song?? that is a big lie!!
there are a lot songs Rafi could not sing because he could not bring the right emotions to a song. I mention Socha tha pyar-on shammi kapoor(Mukesh)/
The Dev anand songs chalri sajni ab kya soche(Mukesh)Ranjendr Kumar songs Mera pyar bhi tu hai(Mukesh-music director Naushad Ali)…
Who said Kishore could sing evry song?? That’s a big lie
there are a lot songs Rafi could not sing because he could not bring the right emotions to the song. I mention Kabhi Kabhi on Amitabh(Mukesh) mein pal do pal ka Shayer hoon(Mukesh) kahin door jab din anand(Mukesh) and alot more…
Who said Mukesh could sing evry song?
I mention Laga chunari mein daag-Manna dey(raj kapoor)Dil hi to hai
Sade ke heer thujepe(Mera naam joker)Rafi Sahab
And a lot Raj-Manna combination
My personal Fafourite is Mukesh Chand Mathur.
but in this case,
I would choose Kishore da
his voice is closer to my hearth than Rafi’s voice
this was my opinion.
My top 3
Mukesh,
Kishore,
Rafi sahab
Talking about awards.. First of all, let me admit, I really don’t take these awards seriously… Just because of the biasedness associated with them.. Kishoreda or Rafisaab should not be judged based on those Filmfare Awards which are at times bizarre!! But two things-
1. Kishore fans, do remember, 2 out of 6 filmfare awards of rafisaab came as a common contender for both male and female.. Chaudhvin Ka Chand, Teri Pyari Pyari Soorat ko are those.. So, that takes the discussion entirely on a different track.. So, please don;t use kishore’s 8 filmfare awards vis-a-vis Rafi’s 6 as a measure to prove who is better..
2. Rafi fans, also, to be noted although Kishore won maximum Filmfare awards in 80s,ie, after Rafisaab’s demise, after 1969- the year industry started him taking seriously as a playback singer, he had beaten rafisaab 4 times(1969,1975,1978 and 1980) to get Filmfare Awards whereas rafisaab could beat him only once(1977)..
So, let us get out of these awards nonsense, they don’t prove anything at all… And to end, Rafisaab was conferred “Padmashree” by Indian Government- the fourth highest civilian award.. Kishoreda’s relation with Congress was well known, so, that question never arises but he won in 1978 “The best Entertainer in the World” award in London by a foreign jury…So, awards always have awards to counter- they simply can’t be a measuring tool!
The problem with Rafi fans is very simple.. They always quarrel (as all minorities do) to forcefully prove their point.. Somebody in the Rafi community was telling “Love rafi or you will be dead”(P Haldar or something).. What a ridicule!! Even i am a true rafi lover, and I think Rafisaab took romantisicm to a new extent.. But the reason i avoid Rafi communities is because Rafi fans don’t respect any other singer at all!! If a MD says Kishore was bad then it was kishore’s fault but if some MD says Rafi was bad, that means the MD is “Coward”, “Ignorant”, “Chamilion” and what not in Rafi fans’ language.. Has any of Kishore’s fans have used similar languages for Naushad, Roshan or any other MD who did not promote KK??
I love rafisaab as much as I love Kishoreda.. But somehow, I have started hating his fans!!
Kishore kumar & Md. Rafi Me Kaun better hai Ye sawal Utna hi betuka Hai Jaise Kisi Se Ye Poochna Ki Mango & Apple Me Kaun Better Hai? Are bhai dono Ka Hi apna Alag Maja Hai , Dono Ka Hi Apna Alag Swad Hai. Music Directors Ki nazar Mein Dono Hi Equal Hai.Dhun Banane Ke Bad Music Directors Decide Karte Hain Ki woh Dhun Kiske Gale Ko suit Karegi. Mohammed Rafi Ke Gale Mein Maximum Dhun Perfect Baithati Hain is wajah se Sangeetkaro Ne Unhe Sabse Jyada Mauke Diye. mohammed Rafi ne sabse jyada songs Gaye Hain is Wajah se Wo Hi Best Hai
This article is very good. But I think, we don’t have right to compare those singers which have left their footprints in everybody’s heart. Not only India but every country in this world has praised them and tried to follow them. Before starting singing as a carrier, every singer wants to be Rafi Sahab, Kishore da, Mukeshji, Talat sahab, Manna Dey and many other who made us to listen songs.
“HATS OFF TO THESE GREAT SINGERS”
forever kishore kumar fan i respect yur opinion about kishoreda but i need to say something.. many ppl say that kishoreda was never a classically trained singer and yet he reached amazin heights.. i firmly beleive that u dont need to classically trained to sing filmy songs.. if u are not classically trained singer u cant sing classical songs or ghazals etc but doenst mean u cant sing filmy songs.. u dont need to be a classically trained singer to sing songs like yeh jawani hai diwani etc hence i ve alwayz beleived that voice is 99percent genetic.. or god gifted.. either u can sing or u cant sing… u can train a donkey for many years but he will alwayz be besura.. similarly u can train many a guy in classical trainin but unless he doesnt have the sur in the first place its no point learning..
My dad is a huge Rafi fan, but I always have been and will be Kishore da fan. His versatility, his grace and his sheer raw talent without any classical training is just on whole another level, that simply cannot be compared with anyone.
saswata let me answer some of yur questions.. first of all in 70;s music composers were forced to use kishore da because of the commerical purpose.. however laxmikant pyarelal were exception who continued to give rafi chance sometimes going against producers and film makers.. in fact in an interview laxmi-pyarelal both stated that rafi was their favorite singer.. second of all yes kishore da won more awards then rafi saheb but majority of his awards were won after rafi s death in 80’s.. in 50;s there was no awards for best playback singer and in early 60;s it was only one best playsinger award regardless male or female, if u take that into account then rafi could have won far more awards then anyone else.. infact rafi also won 2national awards, and also padhma shree .. and personally i never look at how many awards has a singer won because awards are only given on a particular song but anywayz movin on… 90percent of kishoreda is rd burman who completely neglected rafi saheb for some reason wich i felt was unfair.. but if u take away rd burman u are taking away 90percent of kishorda.. however in rafi saheb if u take away naushad u have shanker jaikisan, take away shanker jaikisan u have op nayyar, take away op nayyar u have madan mohan etc.. rafi saheb came from a very village and it was his hard work that made the numero singer of all time.. kishorda also worked very hard but i felt his path was slightly easier as his brother was a major star and hence his entry into industry was easier as compared to rafisaheb..
now whether u like sonu or not thats yur choice but at the moment he is best singer this is said by almost all all composers.. he right now has the most number of awards along with shreya goshal….kumar sanu i felt was alwayz kishorda clone and to make it worse he was also a nasal singer and everyone makes fun of that.. yes sonu at his initial stage was also a rafi clone but now he has created his own style and that is why he has survived in this industry
Remember the film “Amar Deep”, all Kishore songs in the film as the main star was Rajesh Khanna, however when Rajesh’s character died in the film, it was Rafi’s emotional rendering that ended the film, not Kishore’s, Why? Lets ask Mr Pyarelal?
– NO. Ask yourself this one not Pyarelal. Is Kishore an all-time-available kind of singer that if by chance he does not sing a sad song because he might be busy…if a singer does not sing a particular sad song in any movie, does that prove he cannot sing good sad songs! Come’on get a life Dude!
The film “Muqqadar Ki Sikandar” it was Rafi’s emotional rendering that ended the film, Why not Kishore? After all it was Kishore’s main song in the film. Lets ask Mr Anandji ?
– NO. Dont ask Anandji. Ask yourself this one – Why was the main song not given to Rafi? Because Rafi was inferior in singing to Kishore. Why? Ask Anandji.
You mentioned Kishore’s four idols in life – K.L. Saigal; Marlon Brando; Boris Karloff; and Topol of Fiddler (sorry never heard of this individual). I’m not denying this, but please correct me if I’m wrong – How often did Kishore render a K.L. Saigal number on stage?
– Because Kishore was not U and me. He said that he never would sing a song of his idol because if people wud say that Kishore sang it better, it would be injustice to his guru. Such was his Guru-bhakti. It is not like these days Sonu singing every song of Rafi…Those days people had great respect.
“Topol of Fiddler (sorry never heard of this individual)”
– So what, if you have not heard? Many people did right? Do you know all good singers in this whole world. Only few who comes in the TV and internet.
How often did Kishore acted like Marlon Brando or Boris Karloff in his films? Like I mentioned Kishore did often render Rafi number as a tribute on stage!
– yes that was because of the greatness of Kishore’s humility. You cannot judge this by your argument. Humility is a great quality. Dont try to judge this with logical algorithm.
Did you know K.L.Saigal did a duet with Rafi in the early 40’s?
– So what it proves??? For e.g Abhijeet also did a duet with Kishore. Does that mean he is greater singer than others of Kishore school?? What a logic man!
Sonu Nigaam – What other Male singer of “Today” has reached the heights of Sonu – NO ONE! He has sung in more different styles than any other Male singer of the current generation! He mentioned in his Rafi tribute show he wanted to extend his singing range as Rafi did.
– Sorry boss. I dont like Sonu’s Voice. Kumar Sanu sang more well in his prime. Sonu has a girlish thin voice. Your single opinion that Sonu is the great singer of “Today” will only help in your favour of your arguments not to anyone else.
Why did Kishore’s main mentor RD Burman, had more Super Hit Qawalli numbers with Rafi?
Rafi had won the Filmfare award and National Award for “Kya hu wa tera vaada” under RD. RD had failed to achieve this for Kishore!
– Why did Rafi (with all this classical training and classical harkats and singing from 13th age!!) could not win more Filmfare awards than that naturally talented singer Kishore who had no training????? First answer this question, if you want to talk about awards.
Why did it take approx 20years for Kishore’s talent as a singer to reach the top? Rafi took less than half of that time.
– Why could Rafi not act, write lyrics, compose music, direct, produce films like Kishore???? Answer this first!!!!
You are obviously more biased towards Kishore which I can understand as you would naturally would want to defend Kishore.
– You are obviously more biased towards RAFI which I can understand as you would naturally would want to defend RAFI.
A true music lover (as you quote) will be able to observe and recognise from a unbiased view point how some singers had acheived slightly more than others.
– Same I think of you!!! THINK UNBIASEDLY DONT THINK IN FAVOR OF RAFI WHO WAS ONLY A SINGER. KISHORE WAS MANY THINGS EXCEPT SINGING ALSO. SO THERE CAN NEVER BE ANY COMPARISON. YOUR SONU NIGAM TRIED AND FAILED MISERABLY.
Guys,
They are both awesome singers. Why argue? We are fortunate to be able to listen to either of them.
I think kishore exceled rafi in philopophical and sad songs like “kab tak andhere manko chalenge”, “zindagi ka safar hai ye kaisa safar”, “jeevan e na haar jenewale”, ofter number like “chookar mere manko”, “yeh jeevan hai”, in deep and difficult ong like “koi hota jiko apna hum apna “, and “aanewala pal “. thee ong can not be imagined in rafi’ voice. rafi exced kihore in uwwali in romantic duet like Bekhudi me anam”, etc.
Dear All
Before, we start comparing, we must have a feel for all the singers and then only the comparision becomes menaingful.
There can be another Albert Einsten, another Bradman and so on so forth but there can’t be another Ghatasala. He is just unique and divine and there can’t be another voice like that. People may think, I have gone nuts but all telugu guys, who hear Ghantasala couldn’t agree more with me. it’s a different mater that in this country, to get glory, you need to be from above Vindhyas’
DARKTRANCE-7 and saher,
Mere doston…playing with words will not help you at all.
Logically, you can’t measure greatness. There would be many factors for greatness and it vary from people to people.
just like..MNS guys put Raj thakre ahead of so many great leaders (living or dead).
And Rafians always uttered that Rafi was good human being,,,blah blah. Mere doston naushad, mahendra kapoor, manna dey, mukesh, saukat, pankaj malik everyone was great, but not as popular or as demanding as Kishore and Rafi.
Mr Rao,
I think u r most intelligent person on this earth who says that comparison is impossible..This debate persist since last 39 yrs among millions of fans…Most hearting things is, most intelligent guy is participating in…
Ashu and kishore kumar lovers,
Rafi ji’s voice was certainly more melodious than kishore. Kishore was a good singer but certainly not in the range of rafi ji. The qawalis, ghazals, and various romantic songs of rafi sahab prove him to be a superior singer as compared to kishore. Kishore did sing some songs very well, but still to compare him with the great rafi, it is not possible.
Ghantasala lovers,
Ghantasala was also a very great singer with great melodious and majestic voice having a velvet touch and attraction, and he was certainly the greatest in his own style and field. None could, even the great rafi, match him in his style and area of singing.
Nevertheless, as Mr. Manish Kumar says, all these singers are great. Each have their great contributions which can be hardly replaced by any of the singers of today.
dear mohsin
aap ney kaha tha k rafi sahib kk ki waja sey flop ho gye thy to mujhy lagta hai k aap ki is barey main mallomat bohat hi kam hain jo aap ney is tarah ki baat ki thi sahi baat yeh hai k us waqt rafi sahib uk gye hoye thy jis ki waja sey directors k pass kk k ilawa koi or option nahi thi is waja sey un dinon kk k songs ziada aaye or aap jaison ko kehna para k kk ki waja sey rafi saab flop hoey aap ki mallomat main izafey k liye bata don k jab rafi saab wapas aaye to un ko wohi no 1 thy keun k un ki wapsi per super hit song kia hoa tera wada hi aap ki baat ka sahi jawab hai
There are 2 words – Great and Popular. The sysnonym for the first is Rafisaab and for the second is Kishore. I never understand how can Rafi and Kishore be compared. The first reason can be the period those 2 worked. As Kishore came later and became popular due the different kind of songs he sung than Rafisaab.
These 2 can be compared on few points:
Versatility: When Rafisaab sung for some actor, it never appeared that Rafi is singing, but the actor is. And there was no limit on who the acotr is. Few classic examples are Shammi, Rajender Kumar, Johny Walker, Dilipsaab, Dev, Amitabh. But when KK sung even for Rajesh Khanna, the voice always sounded as Kishore’s.
Type of songs: Rafisaab had no limits of what kind of song he could sing.
Range of voice: Rafisaab had definitely better.
When Rafisaab sung, it always sounded like he’s singing from heart while in case of Kishore it was just throatal. Try singing any song by these and you’d feel the difference.
Clarity: Each word in a Rafi song is crystal-clear.
As long as only singing is concerned Mukesh or Manna Dey were better option to compare with Rafi. We listen Kishore Kumar’s song , while we feel Rafi’s song by heart.Rafi was a playback singer for Shammi Kapoor, Dilip Kumar to Rajesh Khanna, Bachhan, while Kishore Kumar was mainly a singer for Bachhan and Rajesh Khanna. Rafi is for all generation while Kishore Kumar is mainly for young generation. Rafi’s voice was more sweeter than Kishore. Kishore came in 50s, so more or less they were contemporary, but he had to wait for RD to come. No doubt that Kishore Kumar was a great singer and we enjoy lot of his songs. But we simply can not compare him with Rafi.
Rafi is Rafi !!!!!!!!
We human can debate on anything. Which is better East or West? North or South? Rafi sahab or Kishor da! Lataji or Asha Bhosleji! Comeon guys they are the legends and they have created their own space no one can touch.
In response to Mr Ashu
Yes your right, we should ask Mr Pyarelal – Why did you use Rafi and not kishore on such an “IN DEPTH EMOTIONAL” number picturised on “RAJESH KHANNA”
Remember the film “Amar Deep”, all Kishore songs in the film as the main star was Rajesh Khanna, however when Rajesh’s character died in the film, it was Rafi’s emotional rendering that ended the film, not Kishore’s, Why? Lets ask Mr Pyarelal? The film “Muqqadar Ki Sikandar” it was Rafi’s emotional rendering that ended the film, Why not Kishore? After all it was Kishore’s main song in the film. Lets ask Mr Anandji ?
You mentioned Kishore’s four idols in life – K.L. Saigal; Marlon Brando; Boris Karloff; and Topol of Fiddler (sorry never heard of this individual). I’m not denying this, but please correct me if I’m wrong – How often did Kishore render a K.L. Saigal number on stage? How often did Kishore acted like Marlon Brando or Boris Karloff in his films? Like I mentioned Kishore did often render Rafi number as a tribute on stage!
Did you know K.L.Saigal did a duet with Rafi in the early 40’s?
Sonu Nigaam – What other Male singer of “Today” has reached the heights of Sonu – NO ONE! He has sung in more different styles than any other Male singer of the current generation! He mentioned in his Rafi tribute show he wanted to extend his singing range as Rafi did.
I don’t think you have really understood my previous post, as I mentioned I have listened to so many different singers and Kishore happens to be a personal favourite but as an honest observation I gave an factual example that Rafi had gone further than any other Male singer of his time which I think you have failed to observe!
Why did Kishore’s main mentor RD Burman, had more Super Hit Qawalli numbers with Rafi?
Rafi had won the Filmfare award and National Award for “Kya hu wa tera vaada” under RD. RD had failed to achieve this for Kishore!
Why did it take approx 20years for Kishore’s talent as a singer to reach the top? Rafi took less than half of that time.
You are obviously more biased towards Kishore which I can understand as you would naturally would want to defend Kishore.
A true music lover (as you quote) will be able to observe and recognise from a unbiased view point how some singers had acheived slightly more than others.
When one has a personal favourite towards a particular singer over the other singer/s then naturally that person is more likely to be biased to defend their suited tastes. This debate will probably go on for ever as its really down to opposite personal tastes which will have no end point of discussion. Not everyone is going to have the same exact personal taste. Imagine every male & female singer sounding exactly the same!
I think the Question of discussion should be “How do you measure the true quality of a great singer?” Discussing issues such as “Vocal & Pitch Range” “Singing out of one’s comfort zone”,”singing in different styles” etc…
Mr ??????
As ur name suggest, your knowlege also has ??????.
There are few rafians who spread this kind of news. True music lover know the truth.
Ask pyearelal. MD of “Haathi mere saathi’, he will tell u truth, don;t fabricate stories.
Mr DARKTRANCE-7,
FYI..
Kishore had only four idols in life. K.L. Saigal; Marlon Brando; Boris Karloff; and Topol of Fiddler. And who is sonu nigam, he grown up singing Rafi;s songs becuase his voice is very near to rafi….Sonu is good singer, but always predictbale like Rafi.
Pls. don’t give example of sonu nigam….Where he is? Hardly he is getting songs in HIndi..He is concentrating on south indian songs. 🙂
Dear friends,
I like rafi but I love Kishore the most. Since my childhood I used to feel that had a number of songs been sung by Kishore rather than Rafi they would have sounded better e.g. kya hua tera vada, chura liya hai tumne jo dil ko, teri galiyon me na rakhange kadam, and many more.
I think that the music directors, who used rafi’s vioce on Amitabh & Rajesh Khanna instead of Kishore’s, have committed a crime.
Well all I can say, this debate has lasted this long is due to the fact that kishore and Rafi are recognized to such a level of discussion is evident enough to show they are both just as great. When it comes to -Who was the greatest Bollywood entertainer?, then without a shadow of a doubt for me it was Kishore da!
I’ve been listening to bollywood songs for the past 28yrs, from 50’s to present day. I have a very huge collection into thousands of songs from various singers. My favourite two are Rafi & Kishore. I have listened to all genres as my taste is very varied, but as an “honest observation” we have had many great singers of different styles but if I had to pick one singer who is measured upon attempting singing in more different styles and delievering “HITS” in these styles e.g., from Classical, Bajhans, Ghazals, folk, Qawalli, Religious Devotional both “Hindu” & “Muslim”, Sentimental, happy, children orientated, Rock & Roll, Disco, Popular, different indian languages PLUS English, French, Dutch, Russian, konkoni & lots more!, there is ONLY ONE SINGER TO DATE – RAFI SAAB!!!!!!!!!! Even Sonu Nigaam had mentioned this in his recent Rafi Tribute shows. Sonu had even stated that Rafi being a Muslim had private albums singing Hindu Devotionals songs which were rendered better, name one Hindu male or even female who has done a private muslim devotional album?? Please! prove me wrong!.
Despite Kishore being one of our greatest singers BUT even he himself did not reach the extended level as Rafi did, don’t believe me then Research for yourself, the facts are out there! Kishore da himself stated he was Rafi’s number one fan! He would always “often” render a Rafi number in his shows. Both singers had the greatest respect for each other and they were the bestest of friends!
At the end of the day despite who’s greater its all to do with reflecting on personal taste that suits “their” listening tastes which is fair enough! Personally I really love Kishore’s voice along with some Mukesh, Manna Dey numbers, etc..
Interesting that despite of today’s studio technology – today’s singers cannot match the level of quality of singers of the golden area! But I have to say today’s singers do make a good effort!
for respected freind mohsin
yaar aap last 60 ki baat kar rahe ho songs tou bata detey bhai taez gana jo aap ne kaha shishi kapoor par aik song hai mere khayal main movie hai jab jab phool khiley us ka song affo khuda itna taez song kabhi kishore ne nahin gaya mean taez main bhi rafi better aap kabhi other singer ke comments parho jaise lata asha manna dey mukesh etc n even kishore accept that rafi is best
i dont want to hurt fans of kishore no doubt he was a good singer but i want to ask only one question to all kishore fans that they really know the true story of song “tu is tarah se meri zindagi main shaamil hai jahan bhi jaon ye lagta hai teri mehfil hai” sung by rafi and also in movie “HAATHI MERE SAATHI” song was nafrat ki duniya ko chor kar pyar ki duniya main khush rehna mere yaar..
both songs sung by mohd. rafi bcoz the fact that all knows kk aur any other singer cant sing n in movie hathi mere sathi kk excuse to sing this song n song tu is tarha nobody accept the chanllenge to sing.
i said i dont want to hurt..n one more thing we are fans how i judge these 2 great singer the real big classical ustad can judge who is better for example student of 2 class cant check the level of 8 i thing u people understand
thanxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi writer.
Your article was a great article and there was no place for another comments.
Now you leave these mad people to fight among themselves. What I knpw that Kishore and Rafi both were the sides of the same coin and they knew it very well.
For these madies I can only say go and listen again again the large number of songs they sang together. If there was a single doubt about love between these two they could not share the ungorgettable duets together. For these madies there is one line of their song “na bichre gey mar ke bhi hum dosto” is enough.
Aashoo
Who listen Rafi and Kishore in one go
Mr Saher,
It was kishore’s modesty that he spoke good things abt Rafi.
His fav. was never Rafi. He adore 4 personlities.. I have already published in this site.
Rafi said in his interview that “Noone could have sung like kishore ‘ Dukhi man mere'”.
It was people greatness who always says good things abt other legends.
For e.g. Amitabh, he always praise Shahrukh as best actor. Is it true?
I am sure you will accept this..
Vipul bhai…Phir wohi baat.
Kishore was best “entertainer” in our film industry. Rafi is not a 1% of kishore on the stage..
kishore kumar have a energetic voice and he is really a actual and one of the greatest play back singer who sings all kind of songs.
farrukh salim
Just serach on youtube for kk’s 5 LIVE performances randomly and take Rafi’s 5 live performances.
Listen to them with open heart and then decide who is the best.
I am sure your answer will match mine.. as kk comes nowhere close to RAFI. RAFI IS FAR BETTER THAN KK.
The question that u asked,,,,was asked by a press reporter to kishore kumar,,, u know what kishore answered then,,,,he said if the reporter knew music,,,there is none in this world that can be compared with Rafi he is was and will remain best,,,,,and never ever compare him with anyone not even lata………..
well its Kishore kumar`s modesty and also his understanding of music that he always consider Rafi sahab best singer as now a days every music director conmcider Rehman sahab best,,,,,as himesh reshamiya said 1 to 10 is Rehman sahab then come we all……
Both are good or can be called best,,,,but what a personality Rafi sahab had a saintly personality that divinity is always mirrored in his voice,,,,,,
HI,
MEIN SAMJTa hun ke kishore agar flim industry mein as a play back na hota to india kay music ka koi hal na hota rafi sahib kay jo fan hain wo ye nai samjte jab rafi sahib kishore ki waja se flop ho gay thay in last 60 to wo bhi kishore ki nakal main taiz ganay lag gai tha kishore kishore aa
kishoreda’s songs transports me into a world of eternity.
Beautiful discussion. I don’t believe in comparisons, and hence won’t indulge in them.
However, for any true Rafi fan, his real gems were between 40’s and 60’s. Definetely, the quality of music as whole in the 70’s was mediocre, to say the least. I am not a fan of the 70’s music at all, and I am very proud to say that I loved the 50’s and 60’s music. Rafi was at his peak, and honestly, many of Kishore’s gems were also in this era (debatable, of course).
Coming to Rafi, I have to add two songs of his which I think have not been mentioned earlier. For me, a great singer is one whose voice can be listened NAKED. By this I mean, it should be purely his voice without any pinch of music. Just lyrics, and the singer (surely, MD is involved). One such song of Rafi is from Pyaasa. It is “Tang aa chuke hai kashmakashe zindagi se hum”. The beauty of this song is there is not any music played in the background. When ever I listen to this song, its DEPRESSION PERSONIFIED. Its easy to reflect “Sadness” in a voice, but its very difficult to express “depression”. Surprisingly, this song is hardly mentioned when Pyasa is remembered. The songs from this movie which are more remembered are Ye Duniya agar mil bhi jaaye to kya hai and Kahan hai, Kahan hai.
Another gem of Rafi is from Baiju Bawra. Again, I am not mentioning O Duniya ke rakhwale, or Tu Ganga ki mauj. The song which i like the most from this classic is “Man tarpat hari darshan ko aaj”. The beauty of this song is its rendition. Rafi does not sings words here, he sings letters. Listen carefully, He sings like “ma-na- ta-ra-pat ha-ri da-ra-sh-an ko aaj”. Its like he is walking on the water, or waves are coming out of his voice. Thats beauty in motion.
Finally, another gem of Rafi is from Raj Kapoor’s AWARA. Now, many may say “There is no Rafi song in Awara”. But again, my personal fav from this movie is “Naiyya teri majhdar”.
For all those who have not listened to these songs, and don’t like/admire Rafi, its a personal request to listen these three songs
I have gone through all the comments and I agree with most of them.
But as for the song “TUM BIN JAOON KAHAN” Kishore version sounds sad which it is supposed. Rafi’s version sounds to be a rather cheerful one. I have to agree with Mr. P Haldar on this one.
Manish Kumar ji – post 1207
Salutations, I fully agree with your views. This is what I was trying to tell the other people here. I had to argue at length, only for convincing others. Had others been with true knowledge like you, it would have been fine. The singers (rafi, ghantasala and kishore ) under discussion are truly true legends and their individual contributions cannot be replaced by one another. Indeed true. Thanks for the comments.
As an Indian, I’m just so glad we have had such people born in my country of birth. These debates over who is the best singer, while amusing to read, also display the continued interest in these singers from the past and I’m so glad Indians of this generation continue this tradition in the face of growing materialism…
Manish kumar
I will only reply with a single line. If you have patience and are really a true music analyst and lover, then pl. give healthy replies to my post. 1094 after reading it patiently.
Excellent points Sudip. You express yourself so precisely and vividly. I appreciate that. Always an enjoyable read. There’s still a lot of stuff we haven’t covered in this debate that we’ll all eventually get to.
Murthy: Your boring banter has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Why don’t you take it to the Ghantasala website?
Why didn’t you also mention that if Rafi hadn’t been born, he wouldn’t have been as famous? What happened – happened. That’s all that matters. He was born, went into Hindi Film Industry, and proved to be a great playback singer. This is a good thing to because NO ONE but Rafi could have adapted to and exceeded the expectations of the several dozens of MDs, genres, and actors that Rafi did. In return, what Ghantasala did in the south or what Kishore Kumar did for RD Burman – could not be replaced by anyone including the great Rafi. This is the greatness of the legends. Nevertheless, I esteem and appreciate Rafi’s contributions and virtuosity the most. That’s just me.
Please – take your Ghantasala stuff somewhere else like RMIM. It doesn’t belong here.
Mr. Sudip, MYK etc. etc. and other rafi fans
What kind of struggle you people are taking to support rafi as the greatest singer ever. I have sympathies. Is it so necessary to argue at such length for a greatest singer. If he is really great, then there is no need to argue at all, because if someone says, he is not great, the greatness would not vanish. But I have definitely some problems with rafi fans. Rafi ji is a great singer,no doubt, but despite his greatness, he has not been recognised for the greatest awards in the country,leave granting atleast recommending was not done by anybody. You people know, in the 60’s Bharat ratna was not there, at that time the highest civilian award was padma vibhushan. The Andhra Pradesh Govt. had recommended padma vibhushan to sri ghantasala in those days, i.e the highest civilian award, but due to sheer political bias and bollywood lobbying (lata ji had only padmashri then) ghantasala was given only padmashri. This is what is called as true recognition. (This was stated by Brahmananda reddy CM -AP in those days. He frankly wrote to govt. of India, that with ghantasala no playback singer in India can be compared – But despite protests the efforts landed in getting padmashri only) So now you know what is greatness. But today jesudas, p suseela, all have padma bhushans, and lata ji had been awarded the highest civilian award. The highest civilian award in India, was first recommended by A P govt. only to sri ghantasala, perhaps the first greatest award for an indian playback singer in the awards history. Had a Prime Minister like PV narasimha Rao (he is from andhra) would have been there, things would had been easier for ghantasala. (today after 28 years of his demise, sadly fans of rafi are fighting for award for rafi ji – a pitiable state indeed.)Another point, when a stamp was released on ghantasala in 2003, stamps were released for kishore kumar also, why this happened, only because a southern legend is getting recognition. Is it fair i.e why kishore’s stamps were released immediately after release of ghantasala’s stamps. My contention is true talents should always be given due recognition, irrespective of statehood and language. And comparison should not be made on language basis. Kishore also was a great singer, why was he not given any award. ( a political biase indeed) This is the situation in the country.
Rafi was fortunate to have been contributed in bollywood, that is why he is more famous (not greatest pl. He is only one of the greatest). Had he been a regional playback singer, he would have been similar only to extent of a regional playback singer and nothing else.
My last reply to u…short analysis on ur fav. songs as per ur last blog.
Listen same songs during time “1:25 to 1:35” .. Akhlaq sang “Gila mout se nahi hai.” Kisore sang “Gila mouuut se nahiiiiiii haiiiii”
Another big difference is,kishore ki pehle line hi dil ko choo leti hai. Pure gaane ki to koi baat hi nahi hai.
Mere dost Sudeep,
Who cares what you like or dislike. “Dil ka bhanwar” would have been 100 times better than Rafi’s version.
Few weeks back in VOI2, Ismail Darbar said “music mahsoos karne ki cheez hai, na ki dimaag lagane ki”..Aur ha, noone could touch or even closer to Kishore in “sur” and karkatein.
abt second songs, just listen “gila mout se nahi hai” line…
Kishore’s version has more feel and harkatein than this song. Akhlaq is almost unheard on low scale…..
Agar e tumhari pasand hai to …i am very sorry. i think i am wasting my time by replying u…
Ashu:
I personally do not think “Dil ka bhanwar” can be bettered by anyone. This song required a mystic voice element. Rafi had a naturally mystic voice.
I guess it all depends on what kind of vocal qualities you prefer. I am sure you have a natural preference for deep, sonorous voice. I have a liking for silken, melodious voice. So no matter how good a singer Kishore is, I have a spontaneous liking for Rafi’s voice.
I’ll leave the following as a parting note for today. The following are two songs,one sung by Kishore and other not by Rafi but by someone with a similar base. I prefer the second one because it has better “sur” and “harkatein” . I am sure you will like the first one because it is deep.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE7lsLplg5w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pL4KSSw3LI&feature=related
Sudip,
Thanx for posting link: great article, but i am disagree to last line
— pity for those who were born two and three decades ago and have not discovered Rafi and Kishore
There are many youngster who are aware of Kishore and Rafi. My nephew(16 yrs. old), he used to make fun of me when he was kid, he used to ask “uncle, why u listen old songs”. I met him aftre 6 months when i visited mumbai last month, i found him listening “Chingari koi bhadke”. I asked him why you are listening old songs. He answered that he started liking old songs, especially Kishore’s number. I was amazed.
Dear DhaniRamji,
I really appreciate your view. It really sound like a great blog by a genuine music lover.
As i wrote many times, indivisual can have their own fav like u and me.
As you wrote “Although sometimes I think that Rafi could have sung some of his songs better “. I also think that some of Rafi songs could have sung better by Kishore.
e.g.
– Chura liya hai tumne jo dil ko
– Mujhe choo rahi hai
– e aankhe uff umma
– dil ka bhanwar kare pukar
May be i sound biased, but i appreciate both singers. It is difficult to imagine music without Kishore, Rafi and Mukesh.
Thanks for ur blog.