An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980. […]
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
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Mr. Bose:
Your emphatic “Only Lata and maybe Asha come close to being almost perfect” is a very subjective opinion. If “sur and other technical details” are the real issues, then the sisters are not even a patch on greats like M.S.Subbalakhsmi, to name one.
If you are speaking about someone who’s a singer as well as a ‘film playback singer’, Rafi, any day, scores over the sisters. He had the vocal sweetness and clarity of Lata as well as the bubbly spontaneity of Asha. As a singer he rivals Lata and as a playback singer he rivals Asha. May be a sweeter-voiced Asha would have been Rafi’s equal as a singer-playback singer two-in-one.
So nice of you Prabhanjan ji,,,My pleasure
Be in touch
It has always been pleasure talking with you,,,
@Arghya: Long back u gave me two KK bengali songs in the rabindra school of music. Sorry for my belated reply. Thanks, and though I don’t understand I felt (of course highly subjective) the songs came from his heart and did justice in the classical mould too. I will treasure these songs for ever.
I am not active on the web, so please excuse me for some time. Thanks again
Manishji
OP’s disgust towards Kishore is very genuine,, There are many instances, even in musical shows like SAREGAMA in the 90s, where directly or indirectly OP made it clear that “he does not care for Kishore”,, Same cannnot be said of Anil Biswas, where I think his only one comment was “manipulated” and that made him villain in the eyes of Rafi fans,,
Honestly, I never felt anything against Nayyar saab, pity, his career declined to an abysmal depth after 70s,, But whatever he had given especially between 1960-1968 to HFM is truely marvelous,, His utilization of Rafi’s voice was much better than SJ or LP,, He and SD Burman were the two MDs who emphasized on the silky and soft buttery spectrum of Rafi’s voice the most where SJ wanted to soar higher and higher with Rafi’s high pitch renditions with an equally powerful(by late 60s, it was sometimes “cacophonic” also) orchestra!!
OP’s comments on Kishore in a Vivid Bharati program in the 70s raised some issues with Kishore fans,, But people say he was making up the story as in that interview he was mentioning the recording of “Sabere ka sooraj”(yup, that controversial song) like:
//Recording ke time pe woh aaye nahi,, To jab woh aaye main gussa ho gaya,, to woh chale gaye aur bole “mujhe yahan pe bulaya kyun tha”,,, maine bola “maine nahi tumhare mama logon ne bulaya tha tumhe”,, Kyunki yeh Ek Baar Muskura Do ke producers Mukherjee Productions wale Kishore Kumar ke mama the”//
That was the worst mistake OP committed forgetting it was actually Kishore who was the mama of shomu mukherjee- producer of EBMD, and not the other way round,, As Subodh Mukherjee, the father of Shomu, Joy and Deb was the cousin of Ashok Kumar and Kishore Kumar,,,
Kishore’s fans jumped at this line and even today, they consider all the stories OP went on telling about Kishore in the recording studios were nothing but made up,, Since, I really don’t know the nitty gritties of them, I can’t comment,, But OP did not like Kishore(for whatever reason), that is an universal truth, nothing to investigate “psychologically”,,,
Hi Manish,
That’s a very good post. Objective and realistic.
What Naushad said about Kishore or Salil said about both or Biswas said about Rafi have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Their views are coloured with their perspectives about what is considered as music and about who are suited for their style of music.
Hi all,
Before I get into any debates about the singers – as this is like flogging a dead horse – I think one of the misconceptions need to be corrected here.
As regards OPN and Kishore, OPN did not choose Rafi over Kishore for “Man mora banwra” or other songs for technical reasons. In an interview that he gave to Dr. Mandar V. Bichu in 2003, he explicitly stated that he was tired of Kishore’s tomfoolery during the rehearsals and so wanted to teach Kishore a lesson.
Here is the relevant excerpt:
Q. You even once made Kishore sing in Rafi’s voice.
“Yes, in Raagini for the classical song Man Mora Baawra, I made Rafi
give playback for Kishore Kumar. I was annoyed with Kishore’s
tomfoolery during the recordings and wanted to teach him a lesson.
Kishore – who was the hero of the film, then went and complained to his brother Ashok Kumar – who was also the producer but Ashok refused to interfere with my decision.
Ashok Kumar later acknowledged publicly that as a producer, it was my music that really helped him sell Kalpana and Raagini.”
To this, I want to say that every singer has his strengths and weaknesses. No singer is perfect. Only Lata and maybe Asha come close to being almost perfect. And I am saying this based on my knowledge about sur and other technical details that I have had the privilege of exploring during the course of my learning Hindustani classical music.
Hi Savita
First of all, please dont call me sir!!! It makes me feel old:((,, Reserve this titles for respected people like Mr. Sandeep Nadkarni rather,,,:))
See, the matter is not whether Kishore was spontenous or not,, at least there is nothing to discuss or prove,, he was spontaneous and that was admitted universally,, But, considering his wrok loads in mid fiftees to early sixties, definitely, his focus on singing was lost,, That was the major reason Sachin Dev Burman having a dispute with him and putting him out of his baton for 6 long years(1959-1964),,In between, SD used Kishore only for those movies where Kishore was the hero(Bewakoof, Apna Hath Jagannath and Naughty Boy),, So, Kishore finding him slightly drifting away from singing in the early 60s,,, by 1963, he was under terrific financial trouble with declining health of Madhubala and his age stood like an obstacle for his acting assignments also,, His same comic stunts which were appreciated from 1954-1960, was now getting repeatitive and bombing at box office,, So, from 1964-1969, he was forced to act in “B-grade” movies with Kumkum, Shyama and Mumtaz only to pump in sufficient money for the treatment of Madhubala,,
People say, that was the period when Kishore developed his “anguish” and “disgust” towards the producers, music directors and media of the industry,, No one gave him work,, So, when he was on top, he made the point boomerung to the producers,, “No money, no song” kind of thing which was so popular trait of his personality,,
The only people who stood by his side with the best whatever they could do were the Burmans,, And that is why he remianed loyal to both of them,, Post 70s, SD also refound his confidence on Kishore and until then Kishore who was singing peppy and light tracks for SD(apart from “Dukhi man mere”), now got a ghazal like “Dil aaj shayar hai”, a semi-classical like “Khilte hai gul yahan”, a soulful duet (the best composition of SDB in 70s)”Tere mere milan ki yeh raina”, a mellow mooded semi-classical “Badi sooni sooni hai”, a philosophical “Duniya o duniya tera jawab nahi” , a sad folk “tune humein kya diya re”, apart from popular songs like “O meri sharmilee”, ” Pyar ke is khel mein”, ” Phoolon ke rang se dil ke kalam se” etc.. SD died a happy man with his last words to Kishore in his death bed, perhaps, relieved to see his “adapted child” Kishore finally not only making it at the top but also proving his versatility as a singer,,,
Anyway, I am drifting the topic a bit , I suppose,,,:),, We can talk at length of this beautiful relationship with SD-Kishore later, where there were ups and downs, love and misunderstanding but still a friendship with 2 inequal aged persons, a MD-singer relationship personally as divine as Naushad-Rafi,,, All MD- Singers made good combo, but on a professional ground,, Only these two combos were far above little professional matter and set in front of the industry a true picture of personal affection,,
Arghya Sir u said, kishore da was very busy with 5-6 film so couldn`t sing,,,let it be even 15-16 movie or 25-26 movie,,kishore da was such a lively person who could sing a song with his best at any time,,don`t u know the famous story of the aake sidhi lagi song,,where Kishore da was presented the song for the first time but being told that lata is out,, so rehersal can`t go on,,and have a look!!! here what make great kishore da peerless that he sang even in Lata`s voice with in moments of seeing the lyrics of song and tune, we know the song is history now ,this is genius great funloving kishore da who used to sing many song Instantly listening just from music director at the recording room,,,entirely different from Rafi saab ,that’s why both were friends and we can`t understand it,,,while Rafi saab,once at Sd burman`s place,dada burman told him of his one of the most lovable song that he wanted to record(hum bekhudi me tum ko),but song was so tough that he wanted to discussed with rafi sahab,,rafi sahab instantly at that very moment sang that so brilliantly with additional mukhra of “hammm him him hum chale gaye`n”,,,that dada burman recorded the song same time,even though Rafi sahib,very sober and self absorbed highly dedicated person used to ryiaz(practice) every song of his for months starting from evening to late at night till 11pm, or 12 and agin from 3 am til,,,,breakfast,,,no matter even if its yahoo, suku suku ,dard e dil or man tarpat hari darshan ko aaj,,both the person was simply devoted to their ideal,,when rafi saab came to industry,,in big 3,dilip kumar`s fav was talat mehmood, Raj kapoor`s was Mukesh,,and dev A`nand big friend of kishore da had kishore da(ziddi 1948) his side,,,Rafi saaab steadily and suddenly proved himself made his place in manyways starting with haye re duniya,,watan ki raah pe watan ke nauzawan, etc,,, and got the top slot in every genre,by singing for almost every actor or sub actor from 40s til 1980 and for about seventy three(74-75) music directors including today`s anumalik,,,,,, kishore da had very hard time for more than 20 years and no one was to appreciate him other than a few person including Rafi sahab who continuously used to praise him and his style in happy and sad song,Rafi saab used to say at that time when this selfish world din`t even knew kishore da as singer rafi saab used to say many times that the way kishore had sang dookhi man mere no one can sing not even me,,,,,the warrior kishore da finally proved himself and sacked the whole nation with a roar as if he has given a big slap to his critics,the roar that we can feel even today but unforunatly this onesided world answered this slap of kishore da by changing their face to another side and asked Rafi sahib to re prove himself, but what Rafi saab would prove who was such a devoted person ,but very soon this critic world got one more slap by rafi saab repitative success til or after the of his last recording in every stream of singing of so called angry natured or romantic younger generation of that phase…
With this site Its simply impressive to be in midst of fellows with high regard for music who r not simply not the opponent or critics,,,, but discussion must go on as its reveal to us many facet of these genius,,,,well, Arghya I read ur reply in darker side where au were addressed as Sir,I liked that very much for u,for the reverence I developed through ur write ups and contribution on this site,,, so,,,Arghya sir,there is something for the sake of debate to go on,I have to mention u ,,u used the word enforced for Rafi saab high notes in kisko pyar karu`n,while a Rafian says ki ye Rafi ke adayen hain,,similarly in falshafa pyar ka tum kya jaano with highly stressed kya ,I like that very much but few may not,listing tese stuff reflects various more song in each word he utters,once a singer(name not to be mention) was singing for LaxPyar , in mid of high notes Lp interrupted and asked why was he shouthing for Rafi saab used to do it so easilty that not even throat nerve moved,,,,Even lata ji mentioned that when she were given the same song of female version in the movie she recorded later was a very tough task had to stress her diaphragm very much for earlier recorded Rafi version was of such a high pich with mixture of low pith,Rafi saab used to do it naturally,unlike in contrast Manna de sang who show every raag in almost every song no matter if situation demanded it or not ,rafi sa`b was such a gentle man that he never showed his class to anyone only sang something that the song and situation in the movie demanded for example,especially because he respected co singer( a rare treat in bollywood),there is a photograph in which lata is singing and Rafi saab was enjoying her voice at the time of fading relationship of royality issue,everyone who like Rafi or not can never deny his brilliance with qawalli yet in deedar e yaar song, mere dildar ka baghpan,,,Rafi saab never did try to show any classical format of singing that he could do simply with qawalli and it appears as if in this song both the singer is singing for each other,and song becomes one of the best duets,similary in most of duet and solos of same version he showed respect to co singer,,for example madhuban me radhika where bade ghulam ali khan was singing he didn`t even gave alap,,,,even one know Rafi saab`s classical supremacy,,, ,,in tum bin song where kishore da was to yodel Rafi saab sang that so simply with not even humming,and many mor example can be find rafi saab attitude,interview, or observing various duets where the immense respect for co singer make Rafi saab`s duet hearty,simply it`s reflected from his personality that he never wanted to prove anything to anyone with self absorved nature as he would mask any masculinity sort of thing or copy something,,,in “mujhe chhu rahi hai”,,its rather romantic husky voice with the warmth of love in it….that makes this song even in this era a big fm hits and timeless song…
I won’t take away anything from Lata’s eulogy of Kishore. He was a great singer who was never limited in the songs he sang. I’m sure she believes that too. “Kishore is only one playaback singer without any limits.” I loosely agree with this statement but I doubt that Lata means it 100% literally, especially in a comparative sense despite its wording. As an example, one cannot compare Rafi’s limitations in classical songs to Kishore’s *lack* of limitations in the songs Kishore sang because Kishore never sang a song like “Baat Chalat”. By the way, I don’t hold that against him as I personally don’t care for classical music. Lata, Manna, etc. have interviewed many times and sometimes it is Rafi, the next time it’s Kishore, and sometimes it is a compromise. We can’t ignore this consistent inconsistency. That’s one indication that personal opinions in interview are not meant to be taken absolutely with 100% weight behind each word. The only reason I posted the Salil Choudhury interview was to the dispel the myth that Salil thought little of Rafi. My intention with that interview was not to “prove” Rafi > Kishore (and if it was, which I doubt, then I wish to correct myself). Lastly, the “human pyschology” (thanks for putting it out so succintly) behind personal opinions in interviews is something that must always be considered. I cannot seriously take OP’s statements regarding Kishore and Ek Baar Muskarado. In the end, these great composers were but human. They were not Gods whose *personal opinions and preferences* were the absolute truth. Salil Choudhury mentioned that he erred and underestimated Kishore during the days long before Aradhana. I wanted to emphasize these very fundamental points because often I hear people citing personal opinions of famous people to *prove* things. Heck, I’ve probably been guilty of it in the past but I learn over time. I doubt you guys watch much boxing but if you do you’ll see so many times where famous trainers and past great fighter pick one guy over the other and then during the match its the other way around. Granted, this is not a very good, corresponding comparision but you get the drift. Glad to get this off my chest so we can focus on the more fun aspects of Rafi & Kishore in the 70s.
Hi Manishji
Nice to have you here once again!
But, why are you putting the psychology behind interviews again?? As you were the person who gave links to Salil Chowdhury interviews to me to prove that Salil considered Rafi to be the best?????
You can verify in “A Darker Truth” posts,,,,
I also admit, celebrities of the golden periods who are alive (Lata,Manna,Asha, Dev) are never consistent in their comments as they hardly remember what they had said in 1975 in 2009,,, But you can never discard Lata’s eulogy to Kishore which she had made more than 10-12 times in public in different phases of her career,, And I have only mentioned here 2, I have 4-5 more with me,,,,
Manna’s comments were never made when he was asked directly about Kishore,,, please read the book,, It came only after when he was asked “whom do u consider the best among your contemporaries” and not direct questions like “What do u think of Kishore” kind of a stuff,,
As far as Ganesh Anantharaman is concerned, can you call this guy like Raju bharathan who said in his books “Rafi to be the greatest”, “young generation might swear by Kishore, but remember Kishore also was an admirer of Rafi” and “With Rafi’s demise, melody was gone from Bollywood”????
Amit
Yes, also, you are tight in saying in 60s Kishore was not getting work in terms of singing,,, I admit and in fact there is nothing to admit it is a known fact,, The question is of 50s, especially between 1954-1959, when on an average Kishore was releasing 5-6 films a year,,, Mind you, 50 years back, that used to be a lot!! At least 7-8 months of continuos work pressure in acting,,, Just see in 1956, he realesed 6 films- Memsahib, New delhi, Bhagam bhag, Paisa Hi Paisa, Naya Andaz and Dhake Ki Malmal,,, Again in 1957 you find 5 movies- Asha, Begunaah, Bandi, Musafir and Parivar,, In 1958 he had Ragini,Chandan,Dilli Ka Thug, Chalti ka naam Gaadi, Lukochuri and Kabhi andhera kabhi ujala,,, Mind you, even top heroes those days like Diip,Raj or Dev also did not have so many releases in a year(averaging 5-6), clearly showing Kishore’s popularity as an actor,, Perhaps, KK also finding his singing skills not getting appreciated, slowly shifted to more acting and was out of time to playback for his own(barring, “Ragini”s Man mora Bawra- don’t worry I know the story so no need to go back to it again:)),, In fact all stories related to OP Nayyar and Kishore),,
In 60s, when he turned older, his grace gone and his acting started getting repeatitive, he lost ground in acting and singing ground he had already lost,,1964-1969, was the creative nadir of Kishore’s otherwise successful career,,, The guy who never took acting seriously still gave competition to actors like Dillip Kumar, who never learnt movie making but got appreciation for Door gagan ki chhaon mein from none other than Satyajit Ray and singing,ahem.. we all know,,,
Hi Amit,,
I stand corrected,,,,
Mukesh sang 108 songs,, You are right,,, I am sorry,,
But my figures for Kishore and Rafi are also correct…
The database of both yoodleeyoo.com and mohdrafi.com are incomplete but you can see them for your ready reference,, mohdrafi.com shows 111 songs of Rafi for KA whereas the actual figure is 156,,So, 45 songs are missing
Kishore sang 212 songs for KA whereas yoodleeyoo database gives 204, so 8 songs are missing,,,,
So, that way KK sang the most, then Rafi and then mukesh,, So, you saying Mukesh sang maximum for KA also stands cancelled:))
Hi Amit,,
I stand corrected,,,,
Mukesh sang 108 songs,, You are right,,, I am sorry,,
But my figures for Kishore and Rafi are also correct…
The database of both yoodleeyoo.com and mohdrafi.com are incomplete but you can see them for your ready reference,, mohdrafi.com shows 111 songs of Rafi for KA whereas the actual figure is 156,,So, 45 songs are missing
Kishore sang 212 songs for KA whereas yoodleeyoo database gives 204, so 8 songs are missing,,,,
and arghya i would like to know where u got yur stats from because according to my stats mukesh by far has sung maximum number of songs for KA around 108songs. u said 180songs that is an incredible amount.. and that is no way right
also arghya
its not that kishore sang less songs in 50s and 60s because he was busy acting.. its because no was giving him chance..if they did he would have sung for them..because mind u kishore always wanted to be a singer not an actor..and this is the reason y he sang for burmans because they gave him chance thats y.. thats does not mean he wasnt taking singing seriously.
sorry arghya it was me who posted 1268.. i by mistake wrote yur name as i was replying to u i do apologize but that was yur answer to yur earlier post
Hi Savita
Thanks for ur kind words and you have it:)))…
My apprehension towards certain things came out as I have heard these things many times which are not actually true,, So, just wanted to make the picture clearer,, As you also might appreciate, I have listened Rafisaab extensively and anyone who has heard more than 1500 songs of Rafi can never stop himself from admiring him,, And I am a big Rafi admirer,,,
And I wish everyone gets this pleasure of being so too,,,,:)
Dev Anand & Mohammed Rafi angle is very fascinating.
For a minute let’s put aside the question if Rafi suited Dev Anand. What’s far more important and conclusive is that Rafi had the greatest impact for majority of Dev Anand’s most defining movies. This maybe a bit subjective and open to contention so I’ll limit myself to Dev Anand’s unquestionably, single-most-celebrated movie – Guide. Kishore sang a wonderful duet for Dev but Rafi by far had the greater role and impact in that movie. Now before someone starts explaining that Kishore was available for only one song…all that matters is WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. These observation put Rafi in proper perspective with regards to Dev Anand.
Listen to Dev Anand’s opening lines before “Koi Sone Ke Dil Wala” when he says “Ke Me Aap Se Ijazat Loon, Main.., Apna Vaada Pura Karna Chahata Hoon”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COrjSLN399U
He deliberately quivers his voice when pronouncing “main”. To me, this doesn’t sound like a youthful hero but an old man. Further, his voice and mannerisms are stale and dry rather than romantic. I’m simply calling a spade a spade here. I have no agenda against Dev Anand.
Then hear Rafi come in and give a sweet, youthful, velvet smooth, soothing, romantic rendition of the song. These adjectives certainly don’t match the adjectives above for Dev Anand’s opening dialogue. The romantic film scene and Dev Anand’s romantic image are both matched (rather, defined and singly carried) by Rafi’s singing but unmatched by the acting / dialogue delivery of Dev Anand himself! Rafi’s vocal presence is what overrides and “corrects” Dev Anand from stale and dry to youthful and romantic. This was the immense contribution of Rafi to Dev Anand’s career.
I would say the same for “Tere Ghar Ke Samne” title song. Once again, Dev Anand’s dialogue delivery before the song sounds very stale and old but Rafi sings youthfully and angelically to fit the scene and image of Dev Anand as the youthful, velvet smooth, romantic hero.
What is romantic? I had an interesting discussion with a Kishore fan on this extremely subjective question. He emphasized having fun and being playful. That’s true but it is also needs “aatma” or “devotion” or “love” itself. Now watch “Ek Bhut Banaunga”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qt6cGSDu4Y
Dev Anand’s deliberately goofy antics in beginning suit a comedy song more than a romantic one. Yet Rafi’s singing has a lot of “aatma” and sweetness in it and Sadhana’s acting is top class and together the two make the scene very romantic.
Notice that when Rafi sings fun, playful songs or even sad songs, the two are seamless. Yehi To Hai Woh” from Solwa Saal, Dil Hai Aapka Huzoor and Nigahon Ne Phenka Ha from “Jaali Note”, “Kahan Aag Gahe Hum” from Love Marriage are good examples. This is because those two genres fall within Dev’s limitations as an actor.”
Here’s the song from Love Marriage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujJ9kZF6BqQ
Yes, Rafi sang “composer’s songs” but the composer’s songs match the film scene and the actor is supposed to do the same. Rafi suited Dev Anand very well. In fact, he went above and beyond and even compsensated for Dev Anand’s antics that which sometimes did not suit the scenes. Rafi added elements critical to Dev Anand’s romantic image that the actor himself did not always portray well. That’s the work of a great playback singer.
Dev Anand’s two great talents were (1) wholesome, good indian boy looks (2) excellent judgment in sticking to sd burman as the music director. IMO, the credit to Dev Anand’s success goes first to SD Burman and then Rafi & Kishore. Between Rafi & Kishore, I rate them equally for Dev Anand. Rafi sang more during Dev Anand’s critical career phase but who can forget the impact of songs like “Jeevan Ke Safar Mein” and “Mana Janab Ne Pukaara Nahin” (my two favorite KK – Dev combos). Dev Anand was lucky to have TWO, unique golden voices backing him. Both voices added their own inimitable elements and played very significant roles to Dev Anand’s success. Jewel Thief is a great example where Kishore gives Dev the cool, yoodlee hoo robust image of “Yeh Dil Na Hota Bechara” and Rafi gives him the sweet, romantic, angelic voice in “Dil Pukaare Aare”. Dev Anand was a lucky man!
Arghya,I really admire u and many other,,,plz don`t take it personally,what a person write or say reflect one`s state of mind,so the words devils and monbkeys are symbolic,,,and if anyone want torelate it,,relate it with me, as I have used this word let I be monkey or devil,,but I respect u all, and esp arghya,,,but I wish something that plz Love these two legends,and go through boths music u`ll find simply master piece,!
well, arghya,,,we all know how Rafi saab loved kishore da as small brother and how kishore da admired Rafi saab and had his only image inhis banglaw,,,,but u can`t deny that every where regionalism giving worse noise in music as well, this can only be ended when we simply love music not even the year,pre or post 69,,,famous dukhi man mere of kis da was much earlier to 69,,,so,,,golden era of music comprises even 40s,50s,60s,,,and melodies of Rafi saab in these phase,,how can u deny existence of suhani raat dhal chuki of rafi saab in 1949 two decade before 69,,,take everything and discuss complete story,yet I feel something when I use discuss,,,listen to a story,u r name suggest u r bengali,,,sorry don`t mind if u r not”,even though,,there was a greatest man(I personally adore him as bhagwan) born was Ramakrishna paramhansa,,,,,he said,,,,that there was a war between bhawan Rama and Siva ji,,,but how can there be any war,,for Lord Ram`s guru was Bhagwan shiva, and hiva being hanuman worshiped Rama,,yet,,,shiva company of devil,,,and Ram`s company of monkey,,kept on fighting each other endlessly,only because of teir own ego,,,,so Friend plz stop,,,as time has gone,,lets cherish these golden era,,and bring in to light the unheard music of both legend to mordern generation,,,
And who said “Rafi is a muslim”??
I have always been the first person to condemn such comments from any fanatics who bring communalism and regionalism in music,,,, Naushad’s love for Rafi or SDB and RDB’s love for Kishore is much much more than these silly stupid and nonsense communal and regional issues,,,
And it is the rafi fans who continously throw mud at bengali composers like Salil Chowdhury, Anil Biswas, RD Burman,(main reason for my walking out of mohdrafi.com), SD Burman(to certain extent, especially after 70s) for not promoting Rafi and favouring Bong singers,,,
If you don’t believe me go and visit 2 posts in http://www.mohdrafi.com, viz, ” Did RD Burman really prefer KK over Rafi” and “Rafi-the true voice”,, You would know who bring regionalism and silly political anecdotes to prove Rafisaab’s superiority,,,
Savita,,,
Rafisaab did sing 24 songs for Raj Kapoor right from Barsaat(1949)-Main zindagi mein rota hi raha hoon to Mera Naam Joker(1970)- Sadge heer tere,,, So, your comment on Rafi not singijng for Raj Kapoor is not validated,,
Also, as far as singing for different actors are concerned, you don;t expect Kishore to sing for those pre-7ps heroes like Shammi, Dillip, Bharat Bhushan,Rajendra Kumar etc. as that time he was not a playback singer exclusively by prefession,, Just like Kishore sang for new generation heroes like Sanjay Dutt, Govinda, Sunny Deol, Kumar gaurav, Mithun Chakaraborty etc. , Rafi could not do so, as he was no more!!! Speaking about common phase of both these singers’ full fledged playback career, Kishore sang much more for Shashi Kapoor, Rishi Kapoor( yes, all Laila Majnu, Karz, AAA, HKKN, Sargam included), Rajesh KHanna, Amitabh Bachchan, Navin Nischal, Rakesh Roshan, Jeetendra, Anil Dhawan, Vinod Khanna, Vinod Mehera,,,, Don’t bring an example like rafi sang with Kundan Lal Saigal in 1946 for a fakir in Shehjahan for the song “Mere sapno ki rani ryhi ruhi ruhi” sort of things,, Talk only to that period after which Kishore actually started taking playback singing as his most important carrer(not exclusive, never in his career anything was exclusive,he was a versatile artiste) and that phase came after 1969,,,
Hi Savita,,
You still have not answered my question properly,,, From what source you said “RD recorded more with Rafi than Kishore after Kya Hua Tera Wada”?? Remember, we are discussing only statistics here and forget for a while whether we are rafi fan or Kishore fan,,,
As far as unrealsed songs of Rafi under RD is concerned, as per released records, Kishore recorded 595 songs with RD, and in my personal collection I have 89 more, which were never released!! So, let us not bring that into account,,
Also, to maintain balance in discussion, I left out the bong songs which RD gave to Kishore between 1978-1980.. If that is also included(considering Rafi recording Bong songs in 1978 with Basu Manohari-RD’s assistants, so, he never was a non-contender for Bong songs), the gap becomes wider with:
Anusandhan(1980): Kishore-3 songs
Kalankini Kankabati(1980):Kishore:- 1 song
Troyee(1980):Kishore:- 3 songs
Post no. 1268 is not mine,,
May the actual poster reveal his true identity
Well said manish,interpretation and opinions blended in ego are the difference,,,now Arghya,it apparently clear that u r a big kis da fan and I`m a Rafian,yet thank you for ur list as it would surely enhance ego of some who dislike Rafi,,,but I love kis da as rafi saab concidred him his brother and also for what kis da really was,,,now about my guts,,,,I ve none as I`ve surrendered it at the divinity everywhere including the shrine voice of Rafi saab,however,for ur consent lets take a few movie from the huge list of urs,,point to be noted rafi saab died on july 1980…
Aanchal released on
18 september 1980:Shaan released on 12 dec 1980,(6 month after Rafis death),Zamaane ko dikhana hai in 1981,kudrat released in 1981,kalia released in 1981,etc,,,,,one movie with rafi voice that u didn`t mentioned ram tere kitne naam,music Rd Burman and released in 1985,,,u may see many rafi song releasing till the decade of Rafi`s death ,there are still many unrealeased song of Rafi sahab that are going to be realeased very soon in some movie,this never mean that Rafi sab make playback from heaven,,ur data is that of the release date,and I said about recording,,,,,,,and now,,,,about Rd burman,,to Rafi fan,he is the villian,,Rafian love kis da but hate Rd Burman not because Rd burman used Kis da over rafi but,,but because of unrelible personality of RD burman,,,he started with Rafi saab,gave major hit,o hasina julfo waali etc,,than switched over to Kis da,completly ignoring Rafi saab even inthe song that suited Rafi`s voice,,,,then in Mid 70s when Lp immersed as leadig music dir,,,he was back to basic to use both legends,and once again came back to rafi,the same Rafi whom he himself criticized rafi saab gave him ultra mordern song like chand mera dil,kya hua tera waada ,pucho na yaar etc,,,,again after rafi sab`s death he went back with no option compltly to kis da,,,then do you blv,,,great Kis da was still ALIVE he introduced Mohd Aziz orchestra singer quality voice but only because he was a poor clone or can be used as substitute to rafi saab`s voice,,,,,so don`t play on RD burman,or what person like Rd burman said who repected none neither rafi nor kishore,he condemned both earlier Rfai ,later kishore da,and switched over to other singer,,kis da is not great for Rd burman said so,,Rd burm says he taught person like kis da,but kis da fan don`t mind because at the same time Rd use unwanted word for rafi!See modest man like Lax pyralal who concider rafi his guru,but rd burman says he made kishore kumar,,but no one object??? strange who can teach Kis da,,kis da natural talent,,,,,Rd had no originality,though intitially he did some really good job,mixed with chori or copying 100% song of west for eg check mehbooba mehbooba on net or youtube u would get link to many song that he copied,,,,,,back to Rafi saab yes I`m born much after Rafi sahab`s death and only have heard Rafi saab`s recording and know him through history,,so even belonging to science background, I love history, and I know history can`t be moulded its the fact,,and so is great,unique, joyous kis da,and pure divine and such a simple child like ever smiling Rafi sahab!
There’s a difference between a personal opinion and a factual or expert account. With regards to personal opinions, I give my own opinion the highest weight, even more than that of a luminary. I am the best person to say whose voice or expression of emotions makes *me* the happiest. We are all humans and equally entitled to personal opinions.
I often treat *personal opinions* of luminaries lightly. First is the reason above. Second, the interpreting interviewer or translator often adds his own interpretation to the interview. I’ve seen this on many occasions. Someone once translated:
Original: “par Kishore ke siwaaye sirf Rafi hii kii aawaaz Dev ke liye yogya thii”
Poor Translation: “Kishore was the perfect choice for Dev Anand; no other male singer, expect Rafi to a limited extent, suited Dev.”
Third, the luminary himself (or herself) is but human. He is going to have biases or say things he does not mean for the entirety. In his last years, C Ramachandra said that Lata was no better than a tape recorder. OP Nayyar said Kishore “ruined” the song in “Ek Baar Muskarado”. Anil Biswas blurted “Rafi was no singer” but on several counts went on to clarify that he simply preferred other singers for his compositions. Yes, Anil Biswas meant what he said in the beginning. Nevertheless, that did not hold for the entirety and later on the great composer did express himself more accurately. CR was obviously upset with Lata.
Fourth, interviews these days are light, casual matters for luminaries like Lata. It is not a serious, intense task like recording a song for Anil Biswas. Statements in these casual affairs are not to be taken as absolute statements. It is possible that a luminary will casually give an answer to suit the context of the interview .e.g interview on Rafi’s birthday or interview by Kishore fans. Manna Dey is the great example of this. This poor legend is constantly harassed by Rafi & Kishore fans alike and is asked to make comparisons. Depending on the context, he has to give a different answer. You have to use your own discretion to judge the context take what you believe true.
I am not aware as to how reliable Ganesh Anatharaman is. A review of his book indicates he is influenced by Raju Bharatan, whom I always treat with a mountain of salt. Secondly, even if Lata does 100% believe what the quotes suggest, I’ve explained my views on personal opinions from casual interviews. In the end, just stick to rule #1 and listen to whoever makes you happy.
Savita..
Refer my post 1268
Sorry to miss out 2 movies from 1978-1980 RD’s music director:
Takkar(1979): Kishore:3, Rafi:1
Aanchal(1980): Kishore:2, Rafi:0
And please before hiding out reply to my question on this,,, The facts and stats I have put before fabatics like you, as you people should look before you rush to any conclusion,,, RD’s preferred singer was always KK, and you guys can never mould history even if you wish politically!!
if loacl radio play most of kis kum song,there must be something great about kis kum as well,fm works with a pattern forlmual,they don`t want to change,and also,,in all of prashar bharti channel for eg,Vibhit bharti,its mohmmad Rafi`s song that is played most,,,all of Kis da Fan,,,if u love kis da it doesn`t mean u hate Rafi,,plz have atleast for once a look on unique personality of Rafi saab!,,,Rafi saab sang most song for most of Film actor accept,,,,,Raj Kapur and Amitabj bachhan(I`m not mentioaning rajesh khanna for the Rajesh khanna song,i.e,ye Reshmi zulfe,Gulabi aankhe,Nafrat ki duniya ko,etc,,,sang by Rafi sahab),Raj kapur` fav singer was rafi sahab,during his break at set he used to play Rafi sahab songs at set,,,,,,And amitabh bachhan,,who sang Mohd Rafi tu bahut yaad aaya,had rafi as his fav singer,,,,and strange,Big b bigger than bollywood in early 70s had Kis kumar to sing most of his song,,yet Rafi sahab`s fav actor of mordern day was big B,,,,there is some different about Rafi sahab,being muslim he sang man tarpat hari darshan,o duniya ke Rakhwale,,and calling bhawan bhagwan.,blood comes out of his mouth even Naushad never came to know about it,,such a simple person Rafi sahab was,,,kis da,how glamourous person he was,,,both are entirly different and great in their ways,,plz if u love kis da,don`t use slang for Rafi sahab that he is muslim,,,he sang most bhajan and patriotic song with soul than anyone else,and he used sing for free such song,or rarely take 1 rupee or some paisa as kahirat is not allowed in Islam,,he used to pray to allah for hours before singing Bhajan to give him strength that he can get pure bhakti for such a song,such was Rafi sahab.love kis da but also have a glance of Rafi saab as well,as Lata said,,such a person Like Rafi saab is not born always
sory I wrote noble prize rather I had to write national award,,,,,I regret for such a minor literal error!I hope no one would mind it as its not the part of discussion….
Savita
Also please tell me what do u mean by “Rafi won nobel prize for RD”…
When would Rafi fans stop making fun of themselves??
Savita
Please share song by song detail for RD after 1978 to 1981,,,As you said after 1977 RD used Rafi more than Kishore,,
Kishore sang 35 songs more than Rafi under him,,,
Devtaa(1978): Kishore:2, Rafi:1
Ghar(1978): Kishore:3, Rafi:1
Naukar(1978): Kishore:2, Rafi:1
Great Gambler(1978): Kishore:1, Rafi:1
Fandebaaz(1978): Kishore:1, Rafi:3
Kasme Vaade(1978): Kishore:3, Rafi:1
Azaad(1978): Kishore:3, Rafi:0
Manzil(1979): Kishore:2, Rafi:0
Golmaal(1979): Kishore:2, Rafi:0
The burning train(1980): Kishore:2, rafi:2
Abdullah(1980):Kishore:1, Rafi:1
Shaan(1980):Kishore:2, Rafi:3
Zamane ko dikhana hai(1981): Kishore:0, Rafi:2
Kudrat(1980): Kishore:2, Rafi:1
Bulandi(1980): Kishore:2, Rafi:1
Harjaee(1980): Kishore:4, Rafi:1
Kaalia(1981): Kishore:3, Rafi:1
Barasaat Ki Ek Raat(1981): Kishore:3, rafi:0
Red Rose(1980): Kishore:2, rafi:0
Ratnadeep(1979): Kishore:1, Rafi:0
Don;t shy away babe and reply to my question,, Go through all the movies I mentioned and if you know counting and have the guts to reply, then come back otherwise don;t spread falsified facts about RD-Kishore with Rafi,,,
Lata mangeskar might have said that kishorda was best the singer but in some cases she says rafi sang sad songs better..another inteview she said that her duet with kishore on sad songs are best and on the other hand her duet with rafi on romantic songs are best,so she alwayz has tried to play safe here..and besides even if she rated kishorda as the best singer u have to remember that they had a fight and did not sing for about 5whole years and even after they patched up thankx to burman da they were never in good terms so hence its quite obvious that she would say kishore is the best and i also felt taht RD burman never gave equal number of chances to rafi and that he asha lata were completely one sided and ignored rafi. Well there u go u just quoated that dev anand said that rafi sang better songs for him, thats all i wanted to hear,,now whether who suits his voice is just a matter of perception..dev felt maybe kishore suited his voice better fair enough but many ppl think the opposite.. i mean for me rafi sang for dev it complemented his voice greatly and similarly wen kishore sang in 70s for dev it also suited his voice..just lyke how abhijeet was srk voice and then sonu became srk voice.. but that for manna dey in almost every interview he mentions about rafi even if not asked.. infact in many stage shows he sings rafi songs and never kishore..surprisingly amitabh favorite singer was rafi and i was completely shocked to here that..so hence even i can give tons of examples of rafi fans rahman,rajesh roshan again another surprise but ive got proof,jatin lalit,ismail darbar, anu malik,sonu ofcourse,udit and list goes on..kishore da fans..javed akther biggest fan,KA,nadeem sharavan,vishal for vishal and shekhar..shaan etc and list goes on..
K for kishore
All radio station play most of kishors song
http://arrahman.asia/index.php?topic=1557.0;wap2
Check above link(or many other related to Rahman) for what best music director of film industry AR Rahman says about Rafi sahab.He difines the word extraordinary with rfai sahab,,,,,,Even Rd burman,,though earlier he favoured kishore kum,after year 77 recorded most songs with Rafi not kishore,as rafi got Nobel prize for Rd song,even Rd recorded disco song uchho na yaar kya hua with Rafi not kishore,even Amitabh bachhan started opting Rafi later on in most of song,Amitabh` fav singer is rafi,every one knows it amitabh at recording of chal mere bhai out of reverence bowed rafi sahab at feet,he never did it with kishore kumar,,,,,Laxmikant Pyarelal,blvd Rafi sahab as his guru,Sd burman opted rafi for the dev anand song even though dev anand wanted Kis kum,,What would be said,,even dev anand after kya hua tera wada,parda hai parda ,sai baba,desh prame song song started opting Rafi not kishore u can check,,,,Sankar jaikishan,,madan mohan,Ravi ,etc,almost all music director concider rafi sahab best,,,even kishore kumar admited Rafi sahab beter than anyone ,male or female,,,,,,and abot Lat ji, no mater what context she said that but every one knows,when lata and rafi sang the same song of two different version,Rafi`s version was such a hit that people don`t know that even Lata sang that song,,like mere mehboob, pardesiyon se ankhiya,jab jab bahar aye, etc,,,,
Excerpts from Ganesh Anatharaman’s book..
//Lataji’s interview//
Lataji(page no. 212): Kishore Kumar is the best male playback singer we have ever had in the industry. I am saying this,beacuse, he and only he, had the ability to sing all types of songs with just the right expression. There is no one else who understood the nuances of playback as well as he did.You didn’t have to teach him what to emphasize, what not to in a song.
Somtimes, I used to think he was not as good in sad songs as Rafi was, but he was better than Rafi in emoting happy songs.
Most singers have their musical limits. Kishore is only one playabck singer without any limits.
//Manna De’s interview//
Manna(Page 205): I like Rafi best as playback singer, but I would say Kishore Kumar had the best voice. I have always felt that when my voice comes after Kishore’s, it has something lacking. He was a genius!!
//Dev Anana’d interview//
Dev(Page 87): If you will ask me, I will say Kishore;s voice suited me the best. I maintain that Kishore, at his best, was better than every other singer, including Rafi.
I hope all understood the meaning of each and every sentence of these legends…
Amit
Lata directly said Kishore was the best singer,,, Not once but more than that,,, One link I have already given in this forum “The darker side” in one of my posts,,, fell free to go through that,, Another time, she said “Kishore was the best playback singer”, you will find in her interview in the book “Bollywood Melodies” by Ganesh Anantharaman given to the author himself,,,
In the same book, in his interview to Ganesh Anantharaman , dev Anand told explicitly that even though Rafi sang better songs for him, but Kishore was the best in enacting, characterizing and trying to suit his voice on the screen,, as far as, Rafi songs for dev are concerned, they were more of Composer’s songs,, definitely Rafi sang them brilliantly, but did not do anything special to “suit the voice of Dev”, whereas kishore was always subtle to introduce small “nuances” of Dev’s character in his songs( “Arre yaar meri tum bhi ho ghazab”-the last whispering line, “Churi nahi yeh mera dil hai”- the “han ha” in between, “Yeh dil na hota bechara”-very subtle “seekha ,,ha,,ha” in last stanza, “Pal bhar ke liye koi hume” etc. etc.),,, And not only Dev, for all actors this “enactment” Kishore could do was marvellous( antara of “Imtihaan ho gayi intezaar ki” for Amitabh with the “hayein”, “Mummy o mummy tu kab saans banegi” with a nasal tone to enact Deven Verma,, there are innumerable examples),,,,
In Ganesh Anantharaman’s book only, Manna De said “even though I like rafi the best, I think Kishore had the best voice and best suited for playback singing, as we only use to sing but Kishore used to put his soul in a song”,,,,
If you, like many Rafi fans, think I am cooking up stories,, please go and buy the book:
“Bollywood Melodies”. Author:Ganesh Anantharaman . Publisher: penguin books, Price: Rs 299.
And all are interview excerpts of Lata, Manna and dev only and not”the author’s view”, who seemed to me a Rafi fan not able to overlook Kishore’s achievements or singing skills,,,
Hi Amit,,
Kishore sang 212 songs for KA, Rafi 156 and Mukesh 180,,
So, maximum songs for KA were sung by Kishore and not Mukesh,,,
Other subjective things I am not going into unnecessary arguements..
anil
SDB had given great amount of hits for rafi saheb also. Infact people often talk about dev anand and kishorda pair but i seem like to rafi and dev anand pair. Rafi saheb sang most of dev anand songs in 50s and 60s and complemented the stylish dev anand. In the 70s dev anand lost his charm and kishorda voice sounded too hard on dev anand whearas rafis voice was very romantic soft and sweet. I dont hink lata directly said that kishorda was the best singer and even if she did,u have to remember that rafi and lata had a fight over loyalty issues and the pair were never in good terms. Manna dey clearly never said kishorda was the best. the whole world knows that manna dey fav singer was rafi go on youtube and check it out. People forget that actually mukesh has sung the maximum number songs for KA.KA had given great hits to rafi saheb in 50s and 60s and due to producers demand were forced to use kishorda in 70s. many ppl say that kishorda was not a trained singer and yet he sang so many filmy songs. u dont need to be a classical singer to sing filmy songs. if u are not a classical singer u cant sing classical songs that does not mean u cant sing romantic songs or sad songs of fast songs. many singers nowadays are not classicaly trained including kunal Kay kay shaan,sunidhi udit only learned classical singing much later in his life. similary all classical singers cannot be playback singers and all classical singers cannot be rafi saheb and manna dey. So hence for me rafi saheb had a god gifted voice, his romantic ada, mood,high range can only be god gifted these factors u dont learn in classical music and ofcourse kishorda voice was also god gifted.
to arghya
Let me tell u something about rafi saheb..rafi saheb started singing from mid 40s and was already an established singer in 50s, whearas kishorda became a proper playback singer only in 70s. So rafi saheb had ruled the industry single handedly for about 25years mind u wich is a lottttttttttt. Kishorda always wanted to be a singer and hated acting and where was kishorda when rafi was ruling playback singing. All your market sharing and all that implements exactly for rafi saheb in 60s. mohd rafi too left so many songs during his peak time,during rafis peak time all MD had only one name in their mind and that was rafi saheb. It was only thankx to burman family that kishorda got chance otherwise no would have asked him at all.Obviously when a singer gives a hit he automatically starts getting offers.. and that is exactly what happened to kishorda in 70s. So hence music composers were forced to use to kishorda for commerical purpose. There were obviously exceptional lyke LP who often went against producers demand and opted for rafi.
There is something called “market share”, which is an absolute value among 3-4 singers, what %age one has sung,, So, among 100 songs in 70s, perhaps Kishore would be at 55% market share…
But there is one thing much much bigger than market share and that is “mind share” which is subjective and relates to the impact of a singer which he leaves,,, In “mind share” factor, Lata and Kishore win hands down for female and male segemnet, whereas asha and rafi’s superiority is mainly in the “market share” segment( as they sang more),,
Why I am saying “Market share” is not a good indicator is beacuse, in the 70s, no MD (leaving 1 or 2) could think of any male voice apart from Kishore-such was his impact!! Others only sang, many times because unlike Rafi, Kishore was not only a singer but also very much occupied with making movies, producing movies, composing, writing scripts-so you don’t expect him to oblige each and every time a MD calls him,, Salil Chowdhury himself told in an interview, he had called Kishore a couple of times for recording, but Kishore could not give him dates( Anand Mahal and Chhoti si Baat),, Same for Kalyanji Anandji,, Kishore was out to London for a show and the song ” Salaam-e-ishq meri jaan” was about to be recorded,, It was suggested by Prakash mehera that Jagjit Singh to be used as Kishore was not available,, but KA insisted for Kishore only, they waited and after Kishore came, picked him up right from the airport and took him to the recording studio,, Such was his impact,,, Rafi also sang many songs in 70s, but those numbers really don’t reflect his “impact”!! As he was a devoted singer and lived and breathed for singing with his past history of ruling music for more than 15 years, it was not difficult for him to get songs to sing,, also, many MDs were grateful and loyal to him even in the 70s,so he could not be overlooked,, But the “impact” and the “mind share” of audience, heroes, MDs, producers all were vehemently towards Kishore,, Even with Congress banning him for 5 years, could not put Kishore down, as still he was recording more than other singers,,,
And in the 80s, Kishore’s rejection ratio of the songs were whoppingly high,, He used to oblige only the old mates like RDB, LP, KA,RR etc. or close family relatives like Bappi Lahiri(for whom he ended up singing junks also),,For toehrs, KK was highly choosy and sometimes highly expensive also(Anu Malik knows the best),, So, those 1000odd songs in the 80s really don’t reflect the “stature” and the “impact” of Kishore ..
Same for Lata,, her rejection ratio was skyhigh after 70s,, She also in the course of obliging old mates like LP ended up singing some below-average numbers, but maintained a better quality output than Asha,, So, Asha- in the course of singign whatever she got- might get a place in Guiness Book for singing the most, but the “impact” will always be reserved for Lata,,,
kishore was a much greater singer than rafi. he was reiscovered nd preferred by india’s best md sdb . Lata also said in the interviewon 80th birthday “kishore was the best amongst all ” kishore,rafi,mukesh.”.The interviews were public.and appeared in all newspapers. mana de lso gave no1 to khreputityof voice then to rafi and then to Hemant and finally counts himself. he sayskishore and hemanta have god gifted voices while his and rafis are trained voices. RDB ,RR, KA prefered kishoe pyarelal said rafii was the best but kishore comes a as a very closed second. ka liked all but eventually prefered kishore . C ramchandra , opn had spotted potential inkishore. That sdb kishores ongs are more becuseof kishore’s moviesi is false. He used manna des playback to kishore in1 969 to all songs and deliberately to kill the politics of shrarat and ragini. Moreover rafi/mahendra/mukesh may have playbcked kishore but the best songs”rangloi sajjaye, nakharewali ,ajanabitum jane had always playback of kishore himself.
when “yeh jeevan hai” was recoded by kishore lp a “rafi bhkta” said laximant felt “God is singinng.” This song and the voice qualityi s hundred times superior to “man re tu khe na dhir dre” which appears dry in Rafis voice. kishore competed with parvenn sultna and according to some listeners way he swept by sheer emotion and soft voice in “hume tumse pyar kitana”. rdb had first recorded kishore version. The versions were planned different right from begining to suit two diferent situations. in the same movie rdb used rafi for the title song but not for this song. True kishore was initially reluctant to sing “mere naina sn bhado” and he first listened lata tape as he had no pracitce in singing classical songs.
but his version has more depth and the voice is really “pyasa” voice and this verson was prefeed by rdb. he replaced the childih initial alap( it looks very childish and distorts dito same in some other lata songs” and moreover the alap does ot suit male character and the situation) with a humming In Madhumati ( a ghost moi) the alap suited the ghost effect. kishore had at times used electrifying taans for example in “Aankhome apke spane sajaye hai” not taken by lata and also an electrifying taan in “jab bhi koi kangana bole” in shaukin(1987). his voice had retind the tenderness in “phoole ke ranse” in 1987 in “kaat nahi duet with alisha chinoy ifor “mr India”. but rafis voice had not retained it in songs like “dardedil and maine pucha chandse” though rfi was excellent inn “pardahai parda “. RD did ot sideline rafi , he onsisiently used rafi in “nair husain moies which alays had est music and whenver rfis oice was needed.
He also used rafis oice on rajesh khanna in late seventies and ashed away the myth that kishore cme to prominence because of rajesh khanna. It should be rembered that when AB became superstar in late seventies rdb rarely usd rafi on AB if at ll and clearly showed that ishore was numero one. To see the magic spell of ishore listen the lively duet “ilagi ne di hawa” from dostana and compare with similar tunes of lp “hum bane tum bane” and “sheesha o ya dil ho.”
the greatest classical singer of India wom ovt has bestowed “Bharatratna” notably “Bhmsen joshi” is a gr8 fan of kishorekumar in light music.
Even inn “madhubn me rahka nche re” noher classical singer had to be specially called or alaps.
kishore na hemant were the only 2 male singers apart from lata to have divine quality in voice refer””kab tk andhere” from “bato batome” (1980), “aa chl ke tuze”, “yeh jeevan hai”
finally kishore genere an thee is also other kinds of ongs in which ishore excels
loneliness songs” koi humdum, koi hota jisko apna 1 kishore
sad songs and philosophy “eg. “zindgi ka safar”, “mera jeevn kora kagaz” 1 kishore the later song has a made a record or remaining on the top of chrts or binanca and that too for a sad song.
life songs””aanewala pal ”
dialogue duets”cha to hum chalat hai”, “aap yaha aye ks liye”
Motivational songs “jeevan se a hr jeenele”, “ruk jana nahi”
kishore has sunga beutiful patriotic song “hum hai indosta ke”, a beautiful classical song “payal ali dekh na”, beautiful ghazal ” Dil aaj shyar hai”, “mere mehboob kayamat hogi”
yes in the paronage of mds rafi scores over kishore but kishore was minly patroned by burmans( thegreates composers of india) and rajesh roshan and to some xtent by kand lp.
but the sog “koi hota jisko apna” composed by salil choudhary uses all 3 octaves and gr8 changes of itch. salil was speechless after recoring the song and said he id not imagine anybody other than ishore for this.
Even gujar gaye din by salil chodhary was muh more difficult and e waited for kishore as he only could do 90% justice to song . it reuired 17 takes.
the salil choudhary kishore combo though a small but was very significant
kishores voice even when high pitched did not lose its dpth contary to rafi.
though rafi’s high pitch range was more than ishore if u look kishore was a great master of very low pitch songs a teritory where very few singers dare.
in all the divine qualityof voice differentiates kishore nd lata from rafi and asha. the second pair is omplementary to first.
there is some mixture of lata/asha ualities nin ishore and some other mixture in Rafi and ice vera.
lata/asha’s mother “Mai” in interview says the voice is really hat of “ash”. asha has more songs than lata. asha’s songs were more in many binacas than lata, she had more firat versatilty but still due to divine quality “lata ” is considered best.
during rafi’s regime the real supreme was lata and manna de and mukesh eigned
In kishore’s era it was mostly ishore though others sang!
In the film Half Ticket the song ” Ake Sidhi Lagi Dil Pe ” which Kishore Kumar sang both in male & female voice under the music direction of Salil Chowdhury. This shows the versatility of kishore kumar. I believe that no other singers can sang simeltanously in male female voice at the same time.
In the film Half Ticket the song ” Ake Sidhi Lagi Dil Pe ” which Kishore Kumar sang both in male & female voice under the music direction of Salil Chowdhury. This shows the versatility of kishore kumar. I believe that no other singers can sang simeltanously in male female voice at the same time. Kishore Kumar is the versatile emperor of Indian Playback Industry.
I was going through the above comment that kishore is a child to rafi in singing. But let me inform that md.rafi received 5 times the best singer award but kishore kumar received 8 times the best singer award. No doubt that rafi is a big singer formally trained but kishore kumar voice was god gifted. He is the versatile genious of indian playback singers.The great film director Satyajit Ray took kishore kumar for play back in two of his films and that too tagore songs.
no body can match mohammed rafi. kishore is just child to rafi sahib in singing, rafi sahib is uncrowned king of melody.
Panesar..
As far as male duets of Kishore-Rafi are concerned, most of the times, Kishore’s “impact” was better. For example:
1. Sare gama(chupke chupke)
2. Mere dildaar ka baankpan( deedear-e-yaar)
3. Kya mausam hai( doosra aadmi)
4. Chhod chale pyari duniya ko( bhagam bhag)
5. tumko khush dekh kar( aap ke deewane)
6. khuda hi juda kare(aap to aese na the)
7. Hum premi prem karna jaane( parvarish)
But, there are some duets whre both of them were equally good, IMO, like:
1. Yaadon ki Baraat(title song)
2. Bane chahe dushman zamana( Dostana)
3. Ek raasta do rahi( Ram Balram)
4. Pyar ka samay(Rampur ka lakhan)
hello guys , its interesting to read the debates of everyone , One thing i know Kishore was a diamond cake , its said by Lata in one of her interview …. . Today singers they are not even close , even todays generation also agree this … Now we are talking these legends Rafi and Kishore .. Lets go this way ..Rafi and kishore have a same solo songs like ” Tum bin jaaoon kahan ” And kishore have sang way better than Rafi also had a better voice if u have noticed this ….. Than few other songs which they sang both like ” Yaddon ki Baraat ” Badal jaate hain yeh Badaley Rishtey ” And few more if u listen to them Kishore still have the best voice than Rafi , its easy to compare when they sing both in one song ……….. Rafi was a trined singer though Kishore was a Guru by himself , A person who never took training and he creates the magic i think we should call him a geniss …….Kishore is the best . I call him a Magician ……………………………………………………………………..
I have read all the opionins . The debate is who has the best voice ….. I love Rafi , Kishore , mukesh , mannadey , and even few more …….. the songs which mukesh sang no other singer could sing because he had has own voice . So i want to say that all these singers are just great with golden voices , comparing them with each other its not good idea .
Personally myself i love Kishore kumar’s magical voice .
Often lot of articles they says he creates the magic when he sings ….no doubt ….. wow what a voice …………