An endless feud between the fans of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar..
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980. […]
Mohammed Rafi was born at Kotla Sultan Singh, near Amritsar . Rafi displayed his talent for singing at the tender age of 13. The lure of movies beckoned him to Bombay in 1944. His first hit was the Tera Khilona Toota Balak from Anmol Ghadi in 1946. India lost this jewel on July 31, 1980.
Abhas Kumar Ganguly, better known as Kishore Kumar was born on August 4, 1929 in Kandwa. Following the footsteps of his elder brother Ashok Kumar he too ventured into movies. But he soon realised that his heart was in singing. Under the patronage of RD Burman he soon flourished. He would at times compose and write songs himself. Sadly he passed away in October,1987.
The debate as to who was the greater singer carries on even today, even decades after their death. Both of them left an indelible mark in the world of Indian film music, a void that still cannot be filled today. No wonder that their fans are at constant feud with one another trying to prove that their hero was better.
It is a no secret that Mohammed Rafi was a trained classical singer and that Kishore Kumar had a natural talent. Hence Rafi’s fans feel that he was the more accomplished and skilful of the two. Kishoreda’s fans are of the opinion that though he may not have been trained, he had purity and sheer quality of voice. The fact that he wasn’t trained, and could still sing anything, both classical and non classical songs with equal magic rendered him more superior than Rafi.
Fans claim that Rafi was the most favoured singer for many veteran composers while Kishore Kumar was preferred by few and was a playback mainly for Dev Anand and later for Rajesh Khanna. Rafi on the other hand balanced his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
In support of Rafi’s greatness, many of his fans say Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films that Kishore himself acted. They also draw the attention to Rafi’s song Darde Dil in Karz which was based on a single note and proved that he was indeed blessed with God-gifted melody. Mohammed Rafi’s fans also claim that Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan who belong to the Rafi school are technically better than Kumar Sanu, Babul Supriyo etc.
On the other hand, Kishore Kumar’s fans remind people of songs which he sang by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. Those numbers are extremely popular even today. They further claim that in the 70’s and 80’s, it was he who sang for a number of heroes.
This debate can go on endlessly. However it must be stated that both were great singers of their times and each had his own distinctive style.
There was no feud between the two and the immense respect that Kishore Kumar had for Mohammed Rafi is clearly seen in the photo during Rafi’s funeral. A silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
© Copyrighted to Yoodleeyoo.com All Rights Reserved.
Dear Ashu, homework ke liye extra time chahiye kya? Theek hai, tension maat lena. Sawal thora asan kar doon kya? Shashi Kapoor aur Kapoor khandan ka baat chhor; Dev Anand hi kaafi hai hamare liye. We believe in fair competition. Hints chahiye to zaroor batana, hna? In the meantime, Dev ka aur ek gaana bhej raha hoon tumhare manoranjan ke liye. Yeh gana ki dhun Jaikishan ne banaya tha 1959 mein. Bahut hi pyara tha Jai; Rafi saab Jai ko chhote bhai se bhi zyada pyar karte the. Yeh gana ka music Sebastian ne most probably arrange kiya tha. Sebastian ka naam soona? Many in the music world consider him the best in the business. Sebastian D’Souza. Tujhe thora thora history bata raha hoon; theek se homework kar, sab seekh jayoge. Aur yeh sab legends ko izzat karna sikhoge. Jai passed away before he reached 40; he became a legend when he was 17. Ab gaana soon:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0okwnJkLVB0
Im sorry for 3 posts..It was not to create more momentum for Rafi-blame it on my browser 🙂
Sanjay
First let me congratulate you for the FIRST KNOWLEDGEABLE POST BY A KK FAN.
But, what is “POWERFUL, RESOUNDING, BOOMING” to you can be “LOUD, HOARSE and INAPT” to someone else. To me romantic and sad songs are NOT meant to be “POWERFUL, RESOUNDING, BOOMING” and that is where Kishore fails. It can create superhits but does not capture the mellow and closeness that is so necessary in romance.
If you really talk of melody and barritone voice talk of Hemant Kumar (or Hemanta Mukherjee) or Mehdi Hasan. They are deep but not out of melody.
If you go by the “masculine, barritone” yardstick, then Talat Mehmood is no singer at all. I am surprised why he is called “King of Ghazals”. In the same yardstick Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan is crap! Rahat Fateh Ali Khan is a novice!
I agree with you on your observation on “Mere dildar ka bakhpan”. This is one song where I think Rafi could have done better. I think because Kishore started the song, he set the tone and set the frequency to his comfort zone. Though in the antara where there is a small yugalbandi, Rafi catches up and Kishore oversimplifies the “jawabs”.
I think this debate is never going to end. Simply because, if you love deep, barritone voice you got to love Kishore and hate Rafi. If you love sweet, melodious voice you got to love Rafi and dislike Kishore.. There is no middle ground.
But to answer your question on Rafi songs that have strong tonal quality. The answer is simple: ALL-depnds on what you are looking for. But since you possibly mean deep, low bass singing, I will name a few :
1. Kabhi Khud pe
2. Suhani Raat Dhal Chuki (it is amazing that this tonal quality was demonstrated in 1949, when instrumental aid was non-existent)
3. Jab Mohabbat Jawan Hota hai
4. Main nigahen tere chehre se hatayoon kaise
5. Aapne yaad dilaya to mujhe yaad aaya
6. Hui shaam unka khayal aa gaya
Now let me give you 5 more songs that will just sound HORRIBLE and HOARSE in “”POWERFUL, RESOUNDING, BOOMING” voice.. Since you seem to be the first and only knowledgeable person in the KK camp, I would like you to comment on how KK’s natural voice would sound in these:
1. Abhi na jao chod kar
2. Door rehkar na karo baat
3. Thehriye hosh mein aa loon to chale jayega
4. Tum se kahoon ek baat
5. Aaja tujhko pukare mera pyar
You will always find some odd Rafi songs because Rafi was given all kinds of songs while MDs protected KK within his comfort zone.
It is interesting that you find Rafi strained while all MDs ranging from Naushad to A.R Rahman feels otherwise (effortless scaling). Of the current day music directors, Rahman, Shantanu Moitra, Ismail and Vishal Sekhar swear by Rafi.
While Khaike Pan Banaraswala may not be as musically touted as Dard E Dil, it was more popular because of the energy in Kishore’s voice. KK made that song a hit – anyone else like Rafi or Udit Narayan would have failed.
Kishore Kumar had a superior voice to Mohd Rafi – even in terms of musical techniques. His deep, barritone voice meant that his voice had SUPERIOR TONAL quality to Mohd Rafi and this meant that he sounded more enunciated. This is one quality of Kishore Kumar that allowed him to make songs, be it just about any song – popular. Listen to the songs from Sharabi, the song from Ram Balram (Humse Bhool Hogaya), and even Khaike Pan Banaswala – he has such a POWERFUL, RESOUNDING, BOOMING voice that adds energy and clarity to the singing that Mohd Rafi cannot match. Those three words in capital cannot be used to describe Mohd Rafi – can Rafi fans dispute this? Rafi had a moderate voice but it didn’t have the same ENERGY or RESOUNDING TONAL quality of Kishore Kumar.
Yes, Udit Narayan is a singer closer to the Mohd Rafi school. I agree with above posters that he is a great singer (not some ordinary SaReGaMa contestant) and so he took his hand at the KK song. He couldn’t recapture the magic because he, like Rafi just doesn’t have the words POWERFUl, BOOMING, ENERGETIC that is reserved for Kishore Kumar. It is for these reasons that Kishore Kumar reigns supreme with just his voice and no training. Could Mohammed Rafi, LP’s favorite singer, have sung the song from Mr India “Kaate Nahi Tak Ye Din Ye Raat” – no you needed the energy of Kishore Kumar. Mohd Rafi would not have been able to do this song justice.
Mohd Rafi was technically a great singer but his voice wasn’t naturally AS ENERGETIC or as great in TONE (things I consider very important) as Kishore Kumar’s. What is even more amazing about Kishore Kumar is that despite having such a heavy, powerful voice, he could have MELODY too! That’s one advantage about Rafi and his soft / light voice – he was a little more melodious maybe because it was easier to switch around notes with such a light voice.
Mohd Rafi tried to compensate for his moderate / light voice by shifting into high pitch. In the duet “Mere Dildar Baankh Pan” Kishore shows stronger tone and Rafi tries to compensate by shifting to a higher pitch but it doesn’t have the same effect and it sounds somewhat strained and highly efforted.
Rafi didn’t always have a soft voice but mostly his voice wasn’t nearly as strong as Kishore’s. Yes, in the song “Tu Hindu Banega” or …trouble thinking of more he showed a strong voice.
Listen to his song , “Kaise Jeet Lete Hai Dil Kisika” it is a great song because Mohd Rafi, for all his soft voice, is technically very sound and does indeed have uncanny magic in his voice, but his tonal qualit is just not there. The words sound as if they’re of LIGHT THREAD – each word isn’t as emphasized as they would be with Kishore’s booming voice – it is a like a long, smooth blur. Yes, Rafi was good for his times. He was good for his times when music didn’t require the energy of Kishore Kumar till later (Rock, machines etc).
MOHD RAFI FANS: Give me a list of songs where Mohd Rafi shows strong tonal quality, where his voice is booming and resounding, where the words themselves are CLEARLY enunciated, and the song doesn’t sound so efforted. “Kaise Jeet Lete Hai Dil” is a great song but doesn’t have those qualities. Bura Mat Suno – not the same tonal quality as Kishore. Dildar Baankh Pan – voice sounds worn and efforted.
Give me a list of Rafi’s energetic, booming sounds. I await.
Ashu, tu idhar bhi aa gaya? Homework diya tha, abhi tak khatam nahi kiya. Tu homework pahle complete kar, uske baad main jawab doonga. Please don’t say your dog has eaten up your homework. In any case, here it is again:
—-
And here’s a homework assignment for you; take your time because you’ll need it. Among the many Dev Anand films that Rafi sung in, I’ll mention only one and that too a non-SD film. The film is Hum Dono and the music was composed by Jaidev, SD’s assistant. There are three Rafi songs in the film, two solos and one duet:
1. Main zindagi ka saath nibhata chala gaya
2. Kabhi khud pe kabhi halat pe rona aaya
3. Abhi na jawo chhod kar (with Asha)
The first part of your homework is to figure out which Rafi sang each of the songs. The second part is a little more difficult. Go through the archives of all Dev Anand films (doesn’t matter who the MD is) and give me one film where Kishore has three songs whose combined impact comes anywhere near that of the three mentioned above. This is your home turf. After all, Kishore is Dev’s voice!
Mr. Haldar,
Pls. listen song from movie “Pyar Kiye ja”. Rafi sang for Shashi Kapoor. Song was like this “RAMLAL MURDABAD…”
He really spoiled the songs. His voice not at all suits wheh he utters RAMALA MURDABAD.
Its pathetic.
No doubt Rafi was one of the legend, but he could not touch Kishore’s talent and energy. It is proven from 1969 – 1987. It is history.
ashu
Well written anonymous great,if Kishoreda is Bradman,Rafi is not even a child cricketer.
HAIL KISHOREDA,THE GREATEST OF ALL.
Dear Anony-mous:
What is your name and who are you… You can hide your name
and identity : but let me tell you :
Y o u have a mentality and an attitude of a frog in the well…
ur musical standards and write – up is laughable ……
and lastly…. thanks for the GOOD JOKE AS STATED ABOVE..
binus….
#
Anonymous:
“Take the case of singing talent programs.In Indian IDOl 1 and 2 no rafi clone has won till date . Same is the case with sa re ga ma pa.”
—What does it prove? Who is easier to imitate? Man, think logically before you write.
–You are talking of low pitch (bass) singing.. Have you sung in your life? If so, try singing “Tumse Kahoon Ek baat” (Dastak) and if you can get past the mukhda you are great! If you think of modulation, try “Jawaniyan yeh mast” or “Pukarta Chala hoon main”. Again if you can get past the mukhda, you are great. In my college social a guy tried “Pukarta Chala hoon main”. He could not get past the mukhda.
–How can you decide for the whole of India. Let us not get into the popularity and as I said if popularity is a measure of art, pornographic magazines sell more than Tagore..The who’s whos in the industry have voted number of times and Kishore has never topped them.
– “Coz only a genius recognizes another”…So you do not consider Madan Mohan a genius or Jaikishen a genius? Shows your musical knowledge..If copying catchy western tunes is the only mark of genius, RD is the only one.
–As I said, more people /*possibly*/ love Kishore but more people respect Rafi. If the baritone voice was an answer to all macho characters, why did the biggest macho symbol in Bollywood till date (Dharmendra) pick Rafi as his preferred singer? And let me tell you, your so called “baritone” voice can NEVER EVER sing “Abhi na jao chodkar” or “Din dhal jaye”… The result would be horrible! Try imagining this.
Also Kishore’s fans are making a big deal of the “no classical training bit”
-True Kishore had minimal (not zero) classical training. But what’s teh big deal. He did not sing any great classical numbers either. If you make a list of 50 top classical songs in films, no KK song would come in the list.
Rafi being a humble, introvert and conventional person never had any cheap publicity. Otherwise it IS INDEED A BIG DEAL THAT HE COULD RENDER SUCH EXPRESSIONS WITHOUT ANY ACTING BACKGROUND.
1. How can a person who did not touch a single drop of liqour sing “Mujhe duniyawalo” or “Arey sambhalo” or “Chalkaye Jaam” or “Peete Peete kabhi kabhi”?
2. How can a person who NEVER indulged in romance (unlike KK) could sing romantic numbers like “Yeh mera prem patra” or “Main kahin kavi na” or “Tere aakhon ke siva”?
3. How can a person who was never ditched or never lost his wife (again unlike KK) sing “Chirag dil ka jalao” or “Meri awaaz suno” or “Din dhal jaye”?
As anonymous said (inadvertantly confessed) Kishore Kumar craze is just a passing pase in life (I had that too). When you are 25, when you try to impress girls with your so-callled baritone rendition and yodelling, when you think life is all about machoism and fun, you listen to Kishore.
When you have grown some maturity, have come to terms with the grim realities of life, have grown out of infatuation into true love, have lost few of your near and dear ones, have broken relationships, you listen to Rafi or Mukesh..
Rafi is a singer for all seasons-fun, frolic, pensive, sorrow…The so-called “baritone” voice can only entertain, NOT SOOTHE…
Also Kishore’s fans are making a big deal of the “no classical training bit”
-True Kishore had minimal (not zero) classical training. But what’s teh big deal. He did not sing any great classical numbers either. If you make a list of 50 top classical songs in films, no KK song would come in the list.
Rafi being a humble, introvert and conventional person never had any cheap publicity. Otherwise it IS INDEED A BIG DEAL THAT HE COULD RENDER SUCH EXPRESSIONS WITHOUT ANY ACTING BACKGROUND.
1. How can a person who did not touch a single drop of liqour sing “Mujhe duniyawalo” or “Arey sambhalo” or “Chalkaye Jaam” or “Peete Peete kabhi kabhi”?
2. How can a person who NEVER indulged in romance (unlike KK) could sing romantic numbers like “Yeh mera prem patra” or “Main kahin kavi na” or “Tere aakhon ke siva”?
3. How can a person who was never ditched or never lost his wife (again unlike KK) sing “Chirag dil ka jalao” or “Meri awaaz suno” or “Din dhal jaye”?
As anonymous said (inadvertantly confessed) Kishore Kumar craze is just a passing pase in life (I had that too). When you are 25, when you try to impress girls with your so-callled baritone rendition and yodelling, when you think life is all about machoism and fun, you listen to Kishore.
When you have grown some maturity, have come to terms with the grim realities of life, have grown out of infatuation into true love, have lost few of your near and dear ones, have broken relationships, you listen to Rafi or Mukesh..
Rafi is a singer for all seasons-fun, frolic, pensive, sorrow…The so-called “baritone” voice can only entertain, NOT SOOTHE…
Anonymous:
“Take the case of singing talent programs.In Indian IDOl 1 and 2 no rafi clone has won till date . Same is the case with sa re ga ma pa.”
—What does it prove? Who is easier to imitate? Man, think logically before you write.
–You are talking of low pitch (bass) singing.. Have you sung in your life? If so, try singing “Tumse Kahoon Ek baat” (Dastak) and if you can get past the mukhda you are great! If you think of modulation, try “Jawaniyan yeh mast” or “Pukarta Chala hoon main”. Again if you can get past the mukhda, you are great. In my college social a guy tried “Pukarta Chala hoon main”. He could not get past the mukhda.
–How can you decide for the whole of India. Let us not get into the popularity and as I said if popularity is a measure of art, pornographic magazines sell more than Tagore..The who’s whos in the industry have voted number of times and Kishore has never topped them.
— “Coz only a genius recognizes another”…So you do not consider Madan Mohan a genius or Jaikishen a genius? Shows your musical knowledge..If copying catchy western tunes is the only mark of genious, RD is the only one.
–As I said, more people /*possibly*/ love Kishore but more people respect Rafi. If the baritone voice was an answer to all macho characters, why did the biggest macho symbol in Bollywood till date (Dharmendra) pick Rafi as his preferred singer? And let me tell you, your so called “baritone” voice can NEVER EVER sing “Abhi na jao chodkar” or “Din dhal jaye”… The result would be horrible! Try imagining this.
Kishore Kumar himself had said that his favourite singer is Mohd Rafiji, that’s it! Now who are these Kishore fans??? Making useless “shor”.
No one can be compared to Kishoreda. Leave alone rafi. As far as playback singing goes the slot of 1-10 is occupied by kishoreda rafi comes at 13 behind lataji and ashatai.
Kishoreda ki had a great tonal quality he had a baritone voice that suited legends like amitabh, rajesh, dev like no one else.
Rafi had a thin feminine voice that allowed to sing at high pitch but he struggled when given songs with low notes and ignorant people talk about his range.
Filmfare a magazine which is still considered the last word on bollywood constituted RDB award in the memory of RDB but no such award has been consituted for for Rafi till date. Thus filmfare considers RDB a bigger film personality than rafi.RDB consirered KK greater than Rafi.
Coz only a genius recognizes another.
Take the case of singing talent programs.In Indian IDOl 1 and 2 no rafi clone has won till date . Same is the case with sa re ga ma pa.
Indian Idol I was won by abhijeet sawant a self confessed kishoreda fan. Sa re ga ma pa was won by debojit another fan of kishoreda
In all these programs, it is India who decides. These are hard facts which cannot be ignored by rafi fans.
Rafi target audience is of the age group 45 and above and kishoreda all those below 45 especially teenagers. Even today if a country wide poll is done on who is India’s Greatest singer, I am confident that kishoreda will get 80% votes, and the remaining votes will go to all other singers, rafi i guess getting below 5% votes.
No one can be compared with Kishoreji,it is a one sided debate.Kishoreji could have easily sung Rafi’s songs,but Rafi could not even dream of attempting Kishoreji’s songs.And everybody knows Kishoreji is the most popular.Monty are you mad?Rajesh is right,Kishoreji’s songs are much much more popular and sells more than all other singers collectively.
True Nairji, no one can be compared to Rafiji. As someone said, it’s a one side debate.
For we Mohd Rafi lovers, his songs are sublime, out of this world.
His conduct in life was – M A T C H L E S S ….. and spotless….
Rafi saab lives in the hearts of millions of music lovers – all
around the globe….
Rafi Saab deserves the Bharat Ratna Award more than any
body…….
His immortal songs are the true friends of MANKIND and for
Music Lovers.
UNBEATABLE AND UNCONQUERABLE.. ..
MATCHLESS ARE HIS WORKS……
And lastly we Rafians will not compare Rafi saab with Kishore
Kumar – whom we all love; no doubt about it…….
binu nair..
Kishore Kumar cannot be greater than Rafiji.
KISHORE KUMAR IS A LEGEND BEYOND COMPARISON. TO ALL THE RAFI FANS, I HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR RAFI AS A SINGER, BUT KISHORE’S GENIUS SIMPLY CAN NOT BE MATCHED. I LOVE THIS MAN’S VOICE, AND HIS SONGS MOVE & STIR YOUR SOUL. I LOVE & ADORE KISHORE KUMAR.
Guys I feel it is unfair to compare these two greats.
Rafi no doubt was a true worshipper of music and got this kind of voice quality through sheer hard work and practice. His perfection of ‘sur’ and melody is beyond compare.
But Kishore had Saraswati placed in his vocal chord. When he came to scene with his maverick singing and versatility he did make the peerless and invincible Rafi insecure for some years.
However as I said both are great in their ways and to demean anyone would be blasphemous.
Sir,
Pl. stop these silly war of kk & rafi fans. There is no result or output for discussing who is great in both of them.
Dear Rajesh ,
Yes u r right KK was more better than Lata ji because when KK singed with Lata ji he had one Rs less than Lata ji!!!!why?!!!KK never singed for one Rs but Mohd Rafi was so cheap paid singer two songs only for one Rs…..
R.D. Burman’s music was copied from western tunes, he made great songs with Rafiji. No one here in London agree that Kishore Kumar sells more than Rafiji or Lataji or Ashaji.
Mr. Rajesh…
Please follow all facts which is the truth…
RDB gave some promising musicals undoubtedly – but soon
became stereotyped. Thus his music and films flopped around
the eighties which saddended music lovers no end…….
Meantime, Laxmikant Pyarelal who used to assist R.D.Burman
along with Kalyanji Anandji were giving unmatched “VARIETY”
MUSIC and surged ahead.. This is no FICTION… SIR…..
I do not wish to demean R.D. Burman any time but facts haved to
be stated…. they turn to be bitter for few, I am aware…….
About your view that Kishore Kumar sells more than Lata,Asha
Rafi, Mukesh and Manna dey is unbelievable and true fiction,
a figment of your imagination…..
Please prove it with statistics/numbers to prove it otherwise..
I wait for it.
binu nair…
Dear Rajesh,
I am better singer than Mohd Rafi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i can say Yahoooo ,RD was greatest!!!!!!!would u please give me RD list of hit flims??KK made Mr Bachchan superstar if there was no KK there was no superstar in Bollywood!!!!!because there are only two superstanr first was Rajesh Khanna because of KK and 2nd was Mr Bachchan because of kk!!!!?if there was no KK there was no RD and SD also KK made LP!!!!!!!after 1980 there was not good musc because KK didn’t sing much!!!!
I am not crazy dears jest I don’t know anything about singer when Mohd Rafi sing I think he is KK.
Since you mentioned youtube, I found the full LIVE version of “O Duniya ke rakhawale”…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjNJjFminCs
This is possibly one of the very few clips in youtube where the video quality does not matter. Just listen to the ease of scale transitions and the depth..He is singing from the navel (as Anandji mentioned) unlike Sonu Nigam and the likes…In one word…AMAZING..
I’ve provided below the links on youtube for six songs playbacked on Dev Anand, three by Rafi and three by Kishore, and all composed by S. D. Burman. We all have our own biases, but these songs capture the essence of playback singing. The songs are sung by the two greatest “playback” singers of all time, with the third sneaking in two of the duets. In this discussion, I was rather amused to find that Kishore fans didn’t ever mention “Phoolon ke rang se” (just listen to his voice in this song) or “Yeh dil na hota bechara” that are so quintessentially Kishore.
Achhaji main hari: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAUAluS5_sg&NR=1
Dil ka bhanwar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOB2q2wO62I
Din dhal jaye hai: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJuK5K0zCa0
Yeh dil na hota bechara: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uTdB3Gwwfs
Are yaar meri: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6uJtsxMDv0
Phoolon ke rang se: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr2Bv7GucIY
Few facts or opinions does’nt make it a truth…. All facts taken
to gether – from 1947 to 1970 and from 1976 to 1980 about
playback singing and about Mohd Rafi prove one point.
That, there is no singer of Rafi saabs range or quality who
strode the MUSICAL SCENE AS THE NUMERO UNO SINGER
of the golden period of hindi music.
In 1971 Rafi took many months break and MDs could not wait.
According to Shri Shakti Samanta producer of Aradhana – thus
Kishore Kumar reaped the benefit. It was good for Kishore and
the music connossieours – as a change is always good…..
Rafi then hit the stage, world tours, concerts at Goregoan and
at Shanmukananda, which music lovers lapped up…
And in 1977 Rafi saab came back with a bang….
Similarly, Lata in the eighties went on a 90 day world tour
and new singers got a chance as Mds could ‘nt wait and
Laxmikant Pyarelal took new voices of Anuradha , Kavita and
many others – displeasing the lady no end………. But this is
another true story – for a discussion may be… As Lata also
was slowly but surely SIDELINED….
BINU NAIR…
Binu Nair,how dare you used such words to the greatest music composer RD?RD is much much popular than any other music composer.And Kishoreji is undoubtedly the greatest singer and genius.His songs alone sell more than Lata,Rafi,Asha,Mukesh,Manna combinely.
KISHORE KUMAR IS GOD,THE GREATEST AND MOST POPULAR SINGER OF ALL TIMES TO COME IN THIS WORLD ,RAFI IS FAR FAR FAR FAR BEHIND IN CLASS AND POPULARITY.
In all seriousness, where are all the KK fans??? Someone should show up, considering how truly popular KK is?!?!
Kishore made Amitabh famouse or Amitabh made Kishore??plz plz plz KK fans give me one name who said that he is because of KK??????IF I am not wrong in Music the KING was Anil Biswas in 1940’s in 1950’s Naushand Ali,in 1960’s was SJ and in 1970’s was LP after Mohd Rafi there was no king in music world.
Rajesh Roshan said once that u r saying why we don’t give good music as we gave in 1970’s because there is no one like Mohd Rafi with us.
how can give one song which singed by Mohd Rafi for Amitabh when Amitabh was superstar and the song is not super hit and same to Rajesh Khanna plz?
Zamana jab talak ghata rahe ga Mohd Rafi har waqt yaad aata rahe ga
By great Naushand
Tujhe naghmon ki jaan ahle nazar yoon hi nahi kahte
Tere geeton ko dilon ka humsafar yoon hi nahi kahte
Dukhi the laakh fir bhi mutmain the dard ke mare
Teri aawaz ki shabnam se dhul jate the gham sare
Teri tano me husne zindagi leta tha angdai
Tujhe baksha tha allah ne andaze maseehai
Tu hi tha pyar ka ek saaz is nafrat ki duniya me
Ghanimat thi teri aawaz is nafrat ki duniya me
Mahfilon ke daman me sahilo ke aaspas
Ye sada goonjegi sadiyon tak dilon ke aaspas.
Well said myk, I agree with you. Rafiji is the best singer of India. he’s still much more popular in India and abroad.
Dear Manish Kuimar..
YOU are spot ON…….
R.d. Burmans scarce use of Mohd Rafi, hastened his downfall..
Sholay missed Rafi songs when Manna Dey sang for the romantic
lovable Dharmendra.
In Seeta aur Geeta, RD used Kishores voice on Sanjeev Kumar…
upsetting the trend……
And R.D. Could not repeat the success of Kati Patang, Aap ki Kasam
and few movies of early seventies. He was no Shankar Jaikishan nor
a Laxmikant Pyarelal who could carry on the initial success….
Did R.D.B antagonise RAFI fans and the music lovers?
Can someone say WHY about two dozen films of RD BURMAN
failed at the box-office?…. And , Why Laxmikant Pyarelal
the nearest competitor scored hits after after in the seventies
and eighties?
Not to forget here that L.P. never left Mohd Rafi until Rafi saabs sudden
departure in 1980..
binu nair….
stunned to know that ther is arafi vrsion of zindgi ekzafar.never heard it.can any body post that song in utube?.i am akeralite. i know alot of people who worship rafi in the state.iam 43.i started regularly hearing rafi songs from 1984 onwards.i by chance happened to hear london programme of rafi at that time.alot of people also hear kishore songs.but most people consider rafi as a great singer alongwith yesudas.yesudas is also a gret singer.he is 70 or more now.even now he sings very beautifully.that is a very long innings.his sound is almost intact even now.i think ther is no other male singer in our country with such a long creer extending well beyond 70.i think only rafi songs could invade and conqer some of yesudas kingdom in kerala.,though ki8shore led several invasions to conquer the music lovers harts in kerala since aradhana.
Manish,
Maybe the discussion may sound one-sided because there is never enough one can say or do to have a shot in matching any singer against Rafi. You cannot place any singer in his category, there is too much of a difference. It is one thing to say something based on opinion, but to mention and opinion and call it a fact with no backup, like many have done, will not result in a good discussion.
Rafi sang the Shararat song because SJ felt Kishore would not be able to do justice to it, simple as that. Same for “Nafrat Ki Duniya”, Kishore was not capable of singing such a song which is why it ultimately went to Rafi, this is also true. Kishore sang the rest of the HMS songs, and for this last song, LP turned to Rafi.
For me, being the voice of Rajesh Khanna and Amitabh is no big deal, there were stars before them and stars after them. Rafi also sang songs for them as well, and they also were big hits. If one is going to compare Kishore’s singing ability to Rafi’s with the help of these two actors, then such a discussion should not go on, because it is really hilarious.
Manish:
1. I think you have raised very good points. It is a legitimate debate; I think Kishore deserves kudos for one single fact-he could stand up to Rafi’s stature and dominate over rafi for few years..That without much formal training.
2. I (like many others) was a Kishore fan too till I was about 20 (because in calcutta you are more exposed to Kishore songs), then I got increasingly more exposed and hence more inclined towards Rafi. I also think that Rafi’s songs carried more profound lyrics (because of Sahir, Shakeel, Kaifi, Hasrat) than Kishore’s (Anjaan, Indeevar and the likes), which I was able to appreciate only with age.
3. I think this debate is one sided because of the topic- who is the best singer as opposed to who is the best entertainer? Kishore entertains me a lot-in parties, in cars, in picnics..I definitely have listener to “Khaike Pan banaraswal” ten times more than “Man re kahe na”.. But then I do not mix entertainment and music.
4. Based on #3, I think more people LOVE Kishore. More people RESPECT Rafi. So one’s judgement would be split along lines of “entertainment versus music”, “love versus respect”. Love for Kishore is also accentuated by his “eccentric genius” image which, as I said before, markets well like Chaplin, Maradona, Ritwick Ghatak…
5. Rafi touches me more than KK. In fact in sad songs rafi to me is at par with Mukesh. Mukesh prevails in low pitch, high bass sad songs, Rafi prevails better in high pitch songs.
6. I really think KK damaged Bengali songs and with RD and Bappi possibly destroyed it beyond recovery. If Asha Bhosle being a Marathi can sing “ke prothom kache esechey” or Lata can sing “Ashar Srabon maney na to mon”, I do not understand why Kishore had to give Mumbaiya touch to bengali songs.
I will now sign off..
I’m a bit dissappointed with this discussion, it is too one sided 🙁
If the this debate has been going on for more years than I have been alive, mustn’t it be a legitimate debate?
This one sided discussion doesn’t seem to indicate that?
I suppose people just love the natural voice of KK and remember him as the voice of the 70s superstars Rajesh Khanna and Amitabh Bachchan and that itself is enough to raise KK to such ranks.
I for the life of me can never understand why Dharmendra was’t labelled a “superstar.” In Sholay, the makers were skeptical of Amitabh and it was Dharmendra who used his clout to convince them otherwise. Dharmendra IMO was superior to Rajesh Khanna in every way and I always loved the Rafi-Dharmendra combination – the two fit each other perfectly.
I don’t think Shammi Kapoor fit Rafi perfectly as opposed to Rafi’s voice just being suitable for EVERY SINGLE ACTOR!
The two most perfect fits IMO:
Rafi-Dharmendra
Kishore-Amitabh
How I was Rafi sang in Sholay! I’ll never forgive RDB for depriving me of that, that is the only thing missing in Sholay, the only flaw in the movie.
Q1: I totally believe that RDB wanted to be unique and that’s why he used KK as his main singer. RDB’s career revolved heavily around KK and when KK’s death lead to RDB’s demise. Kishore Kumar played a large hand in the rise of Rajesh Khanna (and vice versa – mutual relation) and Rajesh wouldn’t have the status he did without KK. Of course Rafi would do just as good playback, but Rajesh would be just another star out of the several dozens that the great Rafi sang for – he wouldn’t be unique.
Q3: KK had tremendous respect and admiration for Mohd Rafi so he agreed to have Rafi Sahab do playback for him. I don’t think Mohd Rafi ever did playback for Kishore as a result of Kishore not being able to render the song (although granted, if KK was singing Ae Mohabat Zindabad hahahaha that’d be another story but I’m only discussing songs picturized on KK). For example, OP Nayar had Rafi replace KK to punish KK for coming late to recordings, not because KK couldn’t sing the song.
Q2, Q8: While I personally don’t think anyone could have BETTER rendered “Nafrat Ki Duniya” than Mohd Rafi, I do think a singer as capable, talented and great as KK could successfully sing that song. And I think KK fans with tastes different than mine would like the KK version better. I’ve heard that KK got too emotional while doing the song and perhaps LP didn’t appreciate that. Remember that when Kishore sang “O Saathi Re” (my favorite KK song – a song I think NO ONE could have sung better – his rough voice in the song added an extra element of sadness IMO so his weakness became artistically a strength) he actually CRIED during the recording. Amitabh Bachchan attended the recording and did not understood – only later when AB had to act out the song did he appreciate the genius of KK.
Additionally, MDs have bias towards singer (although when just about every MD prefers Rafi it shows how great Rafi was!) and that is a bit subjective and doesn’t necessary take away from the singer IMO. If I was a MD, I’d naturally like the Rafi rendition and give him all my songs. But someone else may not have ears like mine and prefer another singer’s. Besides, SJ and Naushad had a long time partnership with Rafi, they were inclined to him. To sing for Naushad, classical training was very important and it was more emphasized in the 1950s and 1960s (disadvantage to KK) than the 1970s where the trend of music changed. The peak times of Naushad and SJ (pre-70) and music values of their time were simply out of phase with Kishore’s abiliites. And KK just didn’t suit Naushad’s music but that doesn’t mean KK wasn’t great for other MDs. Right singer for the right composition – I just think Rafi’s crisp, clean, very melodious voice was better suited for the music of SJ but Kishore’s voice could suit other kind of music.
Q6: Amit Kumar is no Kishore Kumar but I really appreciate his attempted tribute to Rafi. Btw, what song was he trying to sing?
Q7: Shammi Kapoor’s time was up when KK hit the waves. What does it matter, he was THE VOICE for Amitabh!
I feel compelled to be defensive of KK at times because we are invading this site, the KK fans are not properly defending the great singer IMO, and KK did have tremendous respect for Rafi.
Dear prashant as u said Famous comment on kk
I will say Famous comment on Mohd Rafi,
lata Ji ,Singer like Mohd Rafi born obce in life time.
Asha Ji. No one can win Mohd Rafi.
Naushand ,no need to say anything boz we all knows.
P from LP .said easy to make music for Mohd Rafi Lata and Asha boz what we made they will sing but other singer we make music the way they able to sing,L from LP said I don’t know how to make music without Mohd Rafi.
RD said that his first song was singed by Mohd Rafi after listening his own songs he was thinking Is it my song or the magic of Mohd Rafi.
OP Nayar and Shammi Kapoor,they said they are because of Mohd Rafi.
there was vote in this site in this site and Mohd Rafi was link in same place file Mohd Rafi more than 70% and all other singer less tha 30% If i am not wrong u r KK was less than 20% plz ADMIN answer if i am wrong.
Q1,Give one name who said that he is boz of KK?
Q2,Why SJ said this song is not KK CUP OF TEA?
Q3,Why KK gave music to Mohd Rafi?
Q4,Why RD used Mohd Rafi in his first flims and after 1976?
Q5.Can u give me RD best five songs?
Q6,Why when Amit Kummar(kk son) singed Mohd Rafi song on Zee TV in programm called Yoodlee and he don’t able to sing it and people sing it again and he said no in other day?WHY?
Q7,Why RD and LP used Mohd Rafi for Mr Bachchan and they never used KK for Shammi Kapoor?
Q8,Why Naushand usrd KK only once?
Q9,Would u give me SD best five songs?
Some love the legend – Mohd Rafi,
Some love the genious – Kishore Kumar……
Few love Himesh…. not knowing whether
he will survive the next few months….
Folks Listen to the great works of our legends..
Lata , Rafi & Kishore, Talat & Manna, Mukesh & Saighal….
For, They are the sweet nectar of music and life
to drown our joys and sorrows…… hopes and aspirations…
for centuries….. to come….
binu nair
There is no comparission between kk and rafi. Both were masters of their fields and also there was no silly competition between them both respected each other.
rquest the all music lovers plzzzzzzzzz dont use a /////////////// leng:
No other topic will sell here than the comparison between
KK and the legend Mohd.Rafi…
This is becoming a bore subject….Waste; of precious time…
Let s discuss why Javed Akhtar is not releasing the cash
for the promised Kishore memorial in his hometown Khandwa…
I am eager to know why Leena Chandavarkar or Kishore son
Amit Kumar is not pulling out money from their accounts
and spending it for a fitting memorial for Kishore Kumar…..
Lets talk some creative things …… yaar…..
binu nair….
Anuj is definitely an “anuj” (baccha) as far as music goes. His primary source is the net. As someone mentioned before, it is the typical 20-25 year old fop that listens to Kishore and Himesh and uses the night club dance floors to make judgements on music. Most of them convert once they grow some grey hair and life becomes more than fun on the net.
It is good to see Kishore Kumar beat Charlie Chaplin for the genius of the millenium.
Kishoreda is the singer of the millenium,genius of the millenium,I know it from net.
“Mohammed Rafi and Lata Mangeshkar were declared the best playback singers of the millennium while Majrooh Sultanpuri was bestowed with the honour of being the best lyricist”
read link: http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20000109/nation.htm#2
‘Even after 25 years of his death, Mohammed Rafi remains immortal through his songs. Music director Laxmikant expressed surprise at the phenomenal demand for Rafi’s songs. `No other singer, not even Lata Mangeshkar, has been able to attract such tremendous following. It’s almost as if he were still alive,” he once said.”
Rafi’s unmatched tarck record:
read link :
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/fr/2005/07/29/stories/2005072902280300.htm
Hopefully this will bring in some sense for those who simply type anything without thinking and knowing the widely accepted facts.
Zindagi Ek Safar Hai Suhana
You must not have heard the Rafi version of the song to say that he could not render that KK classic. In that song, Rafi’s voice was fuller and IMO had more emotion (then again he was doing a sad version). I had my South Indian friend who knows little Hindi listen to both and asked which voice was better. He said Rafi’s was fuller.
Prashant,
I want to thank you for your enthusiasm and knowledge (I’m serious) of Kishore Kumar and your willingness to engage in this discussion.
In my personal opinion, Rafi & Kishore were excellent live performers – they were for real and sounded just as good live as they did in the studio. The same can’t be said for many singers.
I also think that Kishore Kumar was the greatest live entertainer of all time. I loved his antics on stage (where he plays with Bappi, does the impression of someone who’s lost his voice hahahahaha that had me rolling). My favorite KK performance is when he went to Wembley with Lata – some live versions were even better than the studio version!
Rest assured that you’re idol Kishore Kumar will never let you down because he was THAT GREAT. That’s how I feel about my favorite singer – Rafi.
Thanks again for your posts.
P. Haldar,
Please write your views on the SDB extract I wrote earlier. Besides the RD-Rafi miss post 1980, another miss was SD-Rafi post 1976, what would the two masters have created then.
Manish,
Interesting analysis there, however I feel Rafi and Kishore definitely did not need eachother. They were poles apart as singers, there are many genres that Kishore could not attempt, which were a breeze for Rafi. In terms of voice and range the two are again very far apart. You mentioned their duets together, I feel it was always Rafi that sounded the more meledious of the two (as you mentioned). I also feel his voice never showed any signs of aging at any time.
You mention that you were born after Rafi saab’s death, I am also a part of that group, for me it is Rafi all the way, he is the first and last word in music. You will be surprised to know there are quite a few younger fans of the great legend. I also don’t think we should be comparing Rafi and Kishore by Amitabh. I don’t consider AB as the greatest actor even though he was very popular, and there were stars before and after him, he is just an apple in a big basket full of other apples.
Also, you mention Kishore’s rise on fair grounds, this is not true. A lot of luck went into it, as well as Rafi’s leave of absence for 8 months, and this has been mentioned before. However, there is a saying that give credit where it is due, and from Aradhana onwards, Kishore did prove himself as a great singer.
I also don’t think its fair to compare Udit or Alka to any legends, particularly Rafi and Lata as their standards are very high. Udit is good but there are far better singers than him and I don’t find his voice unique. Alka is great, has a lot of talent, hopefully she can maintain her voice for the future as recently I have been finding a bit of wear and tear in her singing, maybe she needs a break.
Prashant,
Your examples and views are distorted and not based on any fact. Please provide examples based on fact if this discussion is to go any further, all you are doing is presenting things out of thin air.
actually sonali
we are not running kk bachao aandolan but u rafi fan are doing this.
reason kishore when start singing was no.1 (mukesh and rafi existed as playback singer then)and upto death was no.1 but when it come to rafi yes he was no. 1 after sehgal but BEFORE THE GREAT KISHORE.
i don’t know why you again go to the songs sang by rafi like “ye duniya ye mehfil”. of course its mastropiece but if i start saying that could rafi sing the classic of kk like”zindagi ka safar”,”rukh jana nahi”, “mera jeevan kora kagaz”,and many more inspirational and philosophical songthen it look like a typical bollywood hero singing and no such emotion will come out. but its totally ridiculous as it has not be happened then how to comment on such thing and if you still think so then tell that seriously
from ur heart can really rafi sing these song (inspirational Philosophical)
again somebody is challenging me in this discussion about no. of hits
so please man go to hmv t-series yash raj music and other you will be surprised to know that not kk not rafi not lata has highest no. of hits but its
ASHA JI who got maxm hits in his side. the person singing more song will be getting maxm hits. and in 1969 to 1986 kk was ruling the chart and nobody was in his competition.
also i would like tosay that don’t be aggresive as it’s just a discussion
so don’t put some absurd comment
Dear Manish,
I have already cited some of Rafi’s famous ghazals and classical songs. In the soft (not “hnere”) romantic category also, he was the king. Because you like SJ, I will cite three gems that Jai composed for Rafi:
1. Baharon phool barsao (Suraj)
2. Yeh mera prempatra kar (Sangam)
3. Teri pyari pyari surat ko (Sasural)
The first one is one of the greatest romantic songs of all time. Rafi personally liked this song a lot and used to sing it at every concert. The second was composed by Jai with his beloved Pallavi in mind. Listen carefully to how Rafi recites “Haseena likhoon ya dilruba likhoon, Hairan hoon ki is khat mein main kya likhoon” before he starts singing the actual song. Note especially how well he conveys his “hairani”. In the third song, which was also a major hit, note how he plays with the words “chashme buddoor”. Every word he used to utter was worth its weight in gold. Listen to how he enunciates “Hari Om” or “Man re” or “Dil Jhooma” (Diwana hua badal…). As far as technical perfection is concerned, Lata and he were on par (or unees-bees, depending on whom you talk to). But when it comes to placing emphasis on certain words in the lyrics, Rafi was way ahead of every other singer, including Lata. That is why you still see that 27 years after his death, new generations of listeners like you embracing him. In short, the Rafi magic continues.
Rafi added that extra touch to many other romantic songs. Listen to “Ek haseen sham ko” (Dulhan ek Raat ki – Madan Mohan) and see how he enunciates the word “sham”. Another great composition is OP’s “Aap ke haseen rukh pe” (Baharein Phir bhi Aayegi). Rafi’s stylized singing, along with a wonderful piano accompaniment, makes this song one of the best from the OP-Rafi combination. When you listen to and start appreciating the songs that I mentioned above, you’ll find that there is no need to listen to “Chehra hai ya chand” and songs of that ilk.